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Hello,
does anyone knows how can I use Image J to check the open porosity of the surface in the attached picture? Thanks a million for your support, Stefano P Rispetta lambiente: se non è necessario, non stampare quetsa e-mail Please consider the environment before printing this mail --- Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. http://www.avast.com -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
Image349.jpg (283K)
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Hello,
does anyone knows how can I use Image J to check the open porosity of the surface in the attached picture? Thanks a million for your support, Stefano --- Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. http://www.avast.com -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by Giorgio De Nunzio
Hello Giorgio,
thanks for your answer and suggestion. I will take the image with different light angle and sources. Consider that the holes are not regular in their shape. I post here 2 images before and after the filling of a surface where the open and closed holes are more evident. Moreover, I outlined the open holes by marking the surface with a black permanent marker and cleaning it with Ethanol. Where there are open holes, it's visible a black mark. When the holes are sealed via a sol gel reaction you can perceive them as glassy circles. Hope this is more clear, Thanks, Stefano -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Giorgio De Nunzio Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 09:46 A: [hidden email] Oggetto: Re: R: I: HELP Ciao Stefano, I am curious about your image. I think the most difficult thing would be to infer something about hole depth. Perhaps you need some sort of fixed light, with well-defined incidence angle on the sample, so that depth can somehow be related to grey levels. Anyway, before all you must locate those poor-contrast spots, avoiding noise. As you say that the purpose is comparison with a filled-hole image, I think you could post the corresponding image after chemical treatment, so that we can compare themspot by spot and get some ideas. Are all the dark spots holes? Some of them are darker than others, some are more regular, some show a clearer disk with a central well-defined small dark circle. I think you might describe your image in more details. Best regards Giorgio -- Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl Lecce (Italy) [hidden email] [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 0832 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 Il 01/10/2014 08:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: > Hello Volko, > > many thanks for your answer. > > I try to be more specific: I examine with an USB microscope (140 X) a ceramic flat surface. > The surface presents open holes whose average diameter is less than 0.1 mm. > My need is to be able, by elaborating the images I take, to create a sort of map where I outline the open holes and to get an idea of their depth (comparative purpose only). > This since I would like to compare the surface after chemical treatments meant to seal the holes. > > Many thanks in advance, > > Greetings, > > Stefano > > > > > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Volko Straub > Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 08:00 > A: [hidden email] > Oggetto: Re: I: HELP > > Hi Stefano, > > Could you be a bit more specific what you actually try to measure? The image is not very clear and I doubt that you will get any useful data from such an image, but I am not an expert on 'porosity'. Perhaps if you could specify more clearly what you actually try to measure and indicate the structures that you are interested in, you might stand a better chance to get an answer to your question that actually helps you. > > Cheers, > Volko > > > On 01/10/2014 06:40, SureAndClean wrote: >> Hello, >> >> >> >> does anyone knows how can I use Image J to check the open porosity of >> the surface in the attached picture? >> >> Thanks a million for your support, >> >> >> >> Stefano >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. http://www.avast.com -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html --- Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. http://www.avast.com -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by SureAndClean
Hi Stefano,
sorry for asking questions again, without giving any real hint, but I need to understand further. I think the "after" image is clear to me: I attached it again to this message, but I marked with black arrows what I think are (some of) the sealed holes: am I right? What are the black-ish spots I marked with red arrows? open holes? inhomogeneities we are not interested in? Does the image represent the whole sample at 150X (or so)? I am asking this because if you can see the whole sample, you can also easily compare the two images, before and after, with no registration problem, because you can use the sample borders in the two photos to coregister the images and (somehow, to be defined) subtract one from the other. Last question by now, in the "before" image did you cover and mask all the open holes with ink? There is perhaps one which only has a circle around? I have not understood what you did (cleaning with ethanol, what?). Sorry, but the "before" image is full of black spots and small dots that I am not able to interpret. I'd prefer to see the clean holes with some arrows pointing to them without covering/masking. Or perhaps I am simply not understanding, sorry. The "before" image is quite different from the "Image349" you sent before, so I am quite confused. Thanks Best regards Giorgio Il 01/10/2014 11:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: > Hello Giorgio, > > thanks for your answer and suggestion. I will take the image with different light angle and sources. > Consider that the holes are not regular in their shape. I post here 2 images before and after the filling of a surface where the open and closed holes are more evident. Moreover, I outlined the open holes by marking the surface with a black permanent marker and cleaning it with Ethanol. Where there are open holes, it's visible a black mark. When the holes are sealed via a sol gel reaction you can perceive them as glassy circles. > Hope this is more clear, > > Thanks, > > Stefano > > > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Giorgio De Nunzio > Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 09:46 > A: [hidden email] > Oggetto: Re: R: I: HELP > > Ciao Stefano, > I am curious about your image. I think the most difficult thing would be to infer something about hole depth. Perhaps you need some sort of fixed light, with well-defined incidence angle on the sample, so that depth can somehow be related to grey levels. > Anyway, before all you must locate those poor-contrast spots, avoiding noise. > As you say that the purpose is comparison with a filled-hole image, I think you could post the corresponding image after chemical treatment, so that we can compare themspot by spot and get some ideas. > Are all the dark spots holes? Some of them are darker than others, some are more regular, some show a clearer disk with a central well-defined small dark circle. I think you might describe your image in more details. > Best regards > Giorgio > > -- > Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio > Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl Lecce (Italy) [hidden email] [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 0832 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 > > > Il 01/10/2014 08:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: >> Hello Volko, >> >> many thanks for your answer. >> >> I try to be more specific: I examine with an USB microscope (140 X) a ceramic flat surface. >> The surface presents open holes whose average diameter is less than 0.1 mm. >> My need is to be able, by elaborating the images I take, to create a sort of map where I outline the open holes and to get an idea of their depth (comparative purpose only). >> This since I would like to compare the surface after chemical treatments meant to seal the holes. >> >> Many thanks in advance, >> >> Greetings, >> >> Stefano >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Messaggio originale----- >> Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Volko Straub >> Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 08:00 >> A: [hidden email] >> Oggetto: Re: I: HELP >> >> Hi Stefano, >> >> Could you be a bit more specific what you actually try to measure? The image is not very clear and I doubt that you will get any useful data from such an image, but I am not an expert on 'porosity'. Perhaps if you could specify more clearly what you actually try to measure and indicate the structures that you are interested in, you might stand a better chance to get an answer to your question that actually helps you. >> >> Cheers, >> Volko >> >> >> On 01/10/2014 06:40, SureAndClean wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> >>> >>> does anyone knows how can I use Image J to check the open porosity of >>> the surface in the attached picture? >>> >>> Thanks a million for your support, >>> >>> >>> >>> Stefano >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > - -- Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl Lecce (Italy) [hidden email] [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 0832 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 --- Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. http://www.avast.com -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Hello Giorgio,
no matter, I apologize since I recognize in the beginning I've not been clear. Coming to your question: yes, black arrows points sealed holes. The red arrows are metal oxides (iron in this case ) inclusions into the glassy layer of ceramic. These dots do not affect our investigation. This image captures about 1 mm2 of the surface whose total area is 0.4 m2 and the magnification is, for these 2 pictures 145 X. On the picture 'before' the open holes are marked with black ink that is irreversibly absorbed into them, ethanol only removes the ink not absorbed. The holes with circles around are partly filled. I attach an image before the marking with in kin order to let you see how a sealed pore looks like. Thanks, Best regards Stefano -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Giorgio De Nunzio Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 12:30 A: [hidden email] Oggetto: Re: R: R: I: HELP Hi Stefano, sorry for asking questions again, without giving any real hint, but I need to understand further. I think the "after" image is clear to me: I attached it again to this message, but I marked with black arrows what I think are (some of) the sealed holes: am I right? What are the black-ish spots I marked with red arrows? open holes? inhomogeneities we are not interested in? Does the image represent the whole sample at 150X (or so)? I am asking this because if you can see the whole sample, you can also easily compare the two images, before and after, with no registration problem, because you can use the sample borders in the two photos to coregister the images and (somehow, to be defined) subtract one from the other. Last question by now, in the "before" image did you cover and mask all the open holes with ink? There is perhaps one which only has a circle around? I have not understood what you did (cleaning with ethanol, what?). Sorry, but the "before" image is full of black spots and small dots that I am not able to interpret. I'd prefer to see the clean holes with some arrows pointing to them without covering/masking. Or perhaps I am simply not understanding, sorry. The "before" image is quite different from the "Image349" you sent before, so I am quite confused. Thanks Best regards Giorgio Il 01/10/2014 11:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: > Hello Giorgio, > > thanks for your answer and suggestion. I will take the image with different light angle and sources. > Consider that the holes are not regular in their shape. I post here 2 images before and after the filling of a surface where the open and closed holes are more evident. Moreover, I outlined the open holes by marking the surface with a black permanent marker and cleaning it with Ethanol. Where there are open holes, it's visible a black mark. When the holes are sealed via a sol gel reaction you can perceive them as glassy circles. > Hope this is more clear, > > Thanks, > > Stefano > > > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di > Giorgio De Nunzio > Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 09:46 > A: [hidden email] > Oggetto: Re: R: I: HELP > > Ciao Stefano, > I am curious about your image. I think the most difficult thing would be to infer something about hole depth. Perhaps you need some sort of fixed light, with well-defined incidence angle on the sample, so that depth can somehow be related to grey levels. > Anyway, before all you must locate those poor-contrast spots, avoiding noise. > As you say that the purpose is comparison with a filled-hole image, I think you could post the corresponding image after chemical treatment, so that we can compare themspot by spot and get some ideas. > Are all the dark spots holes? Some of them are darker than others, some are more regular, some show a clearer disk with a central well-defined small dark circle. I think you might describe your image in more details. > Best regards > Giorgio > > -- > Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio > Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento > INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl > Lecce (Italy) [hidden email] > [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 0832 > 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 > > > Il 01/10/2014 08:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: >> Hello Volko, >> >> many thanks for your answer. >> >> I try to be more specific: I examine with an USB microscope (140 X) a ceramic flat surface. >> The surface presents open holes whose average diameter is less than 0.1 mm. >> My need is to be able, by elaborating the images I take, to create a sort of map where I outline the open holes and to get an idea of their depth (comparative purpose only). >> This since I would like to compare the surface after chemical treatments meant to seal the holes. >> >> Many thanks in advance, >> >> Greetings, >> >> Stefano >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Messaggio originale----- >> Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di >> Volko Straub >> Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 08:00 >> A: [hidden email] >> Oggetto: Re: I: HELP >> >> Hi Stefano, >> >> Could you be a bit more specific what you actually try to measure? The image is not very clear and I doubt that you will get any useful data from such an image, but I am not an expert on 'porosity'. Perhaps if you could specify more clearly what you actually try to measure and indicate the structures that you are interested in, you might stand a better chance to get an answer to your question that actually helps you. >> >> Cheers, >> Volko >> >> >> On 01/10/2014 06:40, SureAndClean wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> >>> >>> does anyone knows how can I use Image J to check the open porosity >>> of the surface in the attached picture? >>> >>> Thanks a million for your support, >>> >>> >>> >>> Stefano >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > - -- Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl Lecce (Italy) [hidden email] [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 0832 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 --- Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. http://www.avast.com -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html --- Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. http://www.avast.com -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Hi Stefano,
it seems to me a problem easily solvable even with a simple global threshold. If you check the intensity profiles of the structures of interest you might see that the sealed holes have intensity profiles higher than the average grayscale values (see attached figure1.jpg - A) while open holes have intensity profiles lower than the average grayscale values (see attached Fig1.jpg - B) . If you pick a threshold value as a function of the distance from the mean value you might solve the problem. For example, this quick and dirty Matlab script might prove the point without even preprocessing the image (outcome is in the attached Fig2.jpg): A = double(imread('pores.jpg')); ANorm = (A-mean(A(:)))/(max(A(:))-min(A(:))); ThresholdUp = max(ANorm(:))/5; ThresholdDown = min(ANorm(:))/5; figure(1), imshow(mat2gray(ANorm)); figure(2), imshow(mat2gray(ANorm>ThresholdUp)); figure(3), imshow(mat2gray(ANorm<ThresholdDown)); For the preprocessing bit I would recomment a regularization filter, either total variation or anisotropic diffusion might do the job. I'm not sure how this can be done in imageJ, but I assume it isn't hard. cheers, Mauro On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:21 PM, SureAndClean <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hello Giorgio, > > no matter, I apologize since I recognize in the beginning I've not been clear. > Coming to your question: yes, black arrows points sealed holes. The red arrows are metal oxides (iron in this case ) inclusions into the glassy layer of ceramic. These dots do not affect our investigation. > > This image captures about 1 mm2 of the surface whose total area is 0.4 m2 and the magnification is, for these 2 pictures 145 X. > > On the picture 'before' the open holes are marked with black ink that is irreversibly absorbed into them, ethanol only removes the ink not absorbed. > The holes with circles around are partly filled. > > I attach an image before the marking with in kin order to let you see how a sealed pore looks like. > > Thanks, > > Best regards > > Stefano > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Giorgio De Nunzio > Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 12:30 > A: [hidden email] > Oggetto: Re: R: R: I: HELP > > Hi Stefano, > sorry for asking questions again, without giving any real hint, but I need to understand further. > I think the "after" image is clear to me: I attached it again to this message, but I marked with black arrows what I think are (some of) the sealed holes: am I right? > What are the black-ish spots I marked with red arrows? open holes? > inhomogeneities we are not interested in? > Does the image represent the whole sample at 150X (or so)? I am asking this because if you can see the whole sample, you can also easily compare the two images, before and after, with no registration problem, because you can use the sample borders in the two photos to coregister the images and (somehow, to be defined) subtract one from the other. > Last question by now, in the "before" image did you cover and mask all the open holes with ink? There is perhaps one which only has a circle around? I have not understood what you did (cleaning with ethanol, what?). Sorry, but the "before" image is full of black spots and small dots that I am not able to interpret. I'd prefer to see the clean holes with some arrows pointing to them without covering/masking. Or perhaps I am simply not understanding, sorry. The "before" image is quite different from the "Image349" you sent before, so I am quite confused. > Thanks > Best regards > Giorgio > > > Il 01/10/2014 11:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: >> Hello Giorgio, >> >> thanks for your answer and suggestion. I will take the image with different light angle and sources. >> Consider that the holes are not regular in their shape. I post here 2 images before and after the filling of a surface where the open and closed holes are more evident. Moreover, I outlined the open holes by marking the surface with a black permanent marker and cleaning it with Ethanol. Where there are open holes, it's visible a black mark. When the holes are sealed via a sol gel reaction you can perceive them as glassy circles. >> Hope this is more clear, >> >> Thanks, >> >> Stefano >> >> >> >> -----Messaggio originale----- >> Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di >> Giorgio De Nunzio >> Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 09:46 >> A: [hidden email] >> Oggetto: Re: R: I: HELP >> >> Ciao Stefano, >> I am curious about your image. I think the most difficult thing would be to infer something about hole depth. Perhaps you need some sort of fixed light, with well-defined incidence angle on the sample, so that depth can somehow be related to grey levels. >> Anyway, before all you must locate those poor-contrast spots, avoiding noise. >> As you say that the purpose is comparison with a filled-hole image, I think you could post the corresponding image after chemical treatment, so that we can compare themspot by spot and get some ideas. >> Are all the dark spots holes? Some of them are darker than others, some are more regular, some show a clearer disk with a central well-defined small dark circle. I think you might describe your image in more details. >> Best regards >> Giorgio >> >> -- >> Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio >> Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento >> INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl >> Lecce (Italy) [hidden email] >> [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 0832 >> 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 >> >> >> Il 01/10/2014 08:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: >>> Hello Volko, >>> >>> many thanks for your answer. >>> >>> I try to be more specific: I examine with an USB microscope (140 X) a ceramic flat surface. >>> The surface presents open holes whose average diameter is less than 0.1 mm. >>> My need is to be able, by elaborating the images I take, to create a sort of map where I outline the open holes and to get an idea of their depth (comparative purpose only). >>> This since I would like to compare the surface after chemical treatments meant to seal the holes. >>> >>> Many thanks in advance, >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Stefano >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Messaggio originale----- >>> Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di >>> Volko Straub >>> Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 08:00 >>> A: [hidden email] >>> Oggetto: Re: I: HELP >>> >>> Hi Stefano, >>> >>> Could you be a bit more specific what you actually try to measure? The image is not very clear and I doubt that you will get any useful data from such an image, but I am not an expert on 'porosity'. Perhaps if you could specify more clearly what you actually try to measure and indicate the structures that you are interested in, you might stand a better chance to get an answer to your question that actually helps you. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Volko >>> >>> >>> On 01/10/2014 06:40, SureAndClean wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> does anyone knows how can I use Image J to check the open porosity >>>> of the surface in the attached picture? >>>> >>>> Thanks a million for your support, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Stefano >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> - > > > -- > Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio > Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl Lecce (Italy) [hidden email] [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 0832 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 > > > > --- > Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. > http://www.avast.com > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > > > --- > Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus. > http://www.avast.com > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by Mauro Maiorca
Hi Mauro,
and thanks for the mine of information you are providing so kindly. The microscope has a usb camera but and it's not the handheld stuff you correctly mentioned, and yes I had to compress the images before mailing them. The difficulty I've encountered is to have a proper perception of the filled volume. A 100% open pore or a 100% closed one are detectable quite easily. However, the major failure mode in these industrial process happens because of partly filled pore that can collapse somehow. I attach for your reference one of the pores taken by a SEM: Interesting the potential of micro-CT, a technique I am not familiar with. Greetings, Stefano Stefano Rossi -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di Mauro Maiorca Inviato: venerdì 3 ottobre 2014 14:48 A: [hidden email] Oggetto: Re: R: R: I: HELP Hi Stefano, glad it seems working. However, I share some of the curiosities/concerns with the other people who replied to you. Specifically, you mentioned you used a 'USB microscope', I would be quite impressed if we are talking about those few dozen dollars USB microscopes available on the market! Nevertheless, the images you posted here were affected by chromatic aberrations and very strong image compression artifacts, which may possibly impair the analysis. I assume you compressed the image before posting to the list, i.e. it doesn't come from the microscope as you posted here, doesn't it? Either way, as it seems to me that you have access to other microscopes (you mentioned SEM and AFM), you might consider to assess your technique against other imaging techniques: this way you might have better chances to convince people that your analysis done with your USB microscope does not introduce false positives. For example, I'm not entirely convinced that the holes you are trying to fill are completely filled, and I doubt you can tell it with your USB microscope as it is, you might need to use a (volumetric) tomographic technique to produce a convincing answer. In that respect, given the scale of the problem, a micro-CT investigation might do the job, even using those micro-CT devices for small animals, if you happen to have one handy. cheers, Mauro On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 6:34 AM, SureAndClean < <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]> wrote: > Hello Mauro, > > I am checking now your elaboration, it seems really working! I will try to apply it on 2 sample images to confirm its effectiveness and will let you know. > > Greetings and thanks! > > Stefano > > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: ImageJ Interest Group [ <mailto:[hidden email]> mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di > Mauro Maiorca > Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 16:31 > A: <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] > Oggetto: Re: R: R: I: HELP > > Hi Stefano, > > it seems to me a problem easily solvable even with a simple global > threshold. If you check the intensity profiles of the structures of > interest you might see that the sealed holes have intensity profiles > higher than the average grayscale values (see attached figure1.jpg - > A) while open holes have intensity profiles lower than the average grayscale values (see attached Fig1.jpg - B) . If you pick a threshold value as a function of the distance from the mean value you might solve the problem. For example, this quick and dirty Matlab script might prove the point without even preprocessing the image (outcome is in the attached Fig2.jpg): > > A = double(imread('pores.jpg')); > ANorm = (A-mean(A(:)))/(max(A(:))-min(A(:))); > ThresholdUp = max(ANorm(:))/5; > ThresholdDown = min(ANorm(:))/5; > figure(1), imshow(mat2gray(ANorm)); > figure(2), imshow(mat2gray(ANorm>ThresholdUp)); > figure(3), imshow(mat2gray(ANorm<ThresholdDown)); > > For the preprocessing bit I would recomment a regularization filter, either total variation or anisotropic diffusion might do the job. I'm not sure how this can be done in imageJ, but I assume it isn't hard. > > cheers, > Mauro > > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:21 PM, SureAndClean < <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]> wrote: >> Hello Giorgio, >> >> no matter, I apologize since I recognize in the beginning I've not been clear. >> Coming to your question: yes, black arrows points sealed holes. The red arrows are metal oxides (iron in this case ) inclusions into the glassy layer of ceramic. These dots do not affect our investigation. >> >> This image captures about 1 mm2 of the surface whose total area is 0.4 m2 and the magnification is, for these 2 pictures 145 X. >> >> On the picture 'before' the open holes are marked with black ink that is irreversibly absorbed into them, ethanol only removes the ink not absorbed. >> The holes with circles around are partly filled. >> >> I attach an image before the marking with in kin order to let you see how a sealed pore looks like. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Best regards >> >> Stefano >> >> -----Messaggio originale----- >> Da: ImageJ Interest Group [ <mailto:[hidden email]> mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di >> Giorgio De Nunzio >> Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 12:30 >> A: <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] >> Oggetto: Re: R: R: I: HELP >> >> Hi Stefano, >> sorry for asking questions again, without giving any real hint, but I need to understand further. >> I think the "after" image is clear to me: I attached it again to this message, but I marked with black arrows what I think are (some of) the sealed holes: am I right? >> What are the black-ish spots I marked with red arrows? open holes? >> inhomogeneities we are not interested in? >> Does the image represent the whole sample at 150X (or so)? I am asking this because if you can see the whole sample, you can also easily compare the two images, before and after, with no registration problem, because you can use the sample borders in the two photos to coregister the images and (somehow, to be defined) subtract one from the other. >> Last question by now, in the "before" image did you cover and mask all the open holes with ink? There is perhaps one which only has a circle around? I have not understood what you did (cleaning with ethanol, what?). Sorry, but the "before" image is full of black spots and small dots that I am not able to interpret. I'd prefer to see the clean holes with some arrows pointing to them without covering/masking. Or perhaps I am simply not understanding, sorry. The "before" image is quite different from the "Image349" you sent before, so I am quite confused. >> Thanks >> Best regards >> Giorgio >> >> >> Il 01/10/2014 11:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: >>> Hello Giorgio, >>> >>> thanks for your answer and suggestion. I will take the image with different light angle and sources. >>> Consider that the holes are not regular in their shape. I post here 2 images before and after the filling of a surface where the open and closed holes are more evident. Moreover, I outlined the open holes by marking the surface with a black permanent marker and cleaning it with Ethanol. Where there are open holes, it's visible a black mark. When the holes are sealed via a sol gel reaction you can perceive them as glassy circles. >>> Hope this is more clear, >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Stefano >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Messaggio originale----- >>> Da: ImageJ Interest Group [ <mailto:[hidden email]> mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di >>> Giorgio De Nunzio >>> Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 09:46 >>> A: <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] >>> Oggetto: Re: R: I: HELP >>> >>> Ciao Stefano, >>> I am curious about your image. I think the most difficult thing would be to infer something about hole depth. Perhaps you need some sort of fixed light, with well-defined incidence angle on the sample, so that depth can somehow be related to grey levels. >>> Anyway, before all you must locate those poor-contrast spots, avoiding noise. >>> As you say that the purpose is comparison with a filled-hole image, I think you could post the corresponding image after chemical treatment, so that we can compare themspot by spot and get some ideas. >>> Are all the dark spots holes? Some of them are darker than others, some are more regular, some show a clearer disk with a central well-defined small dark circle. I think you might describe your image in more details. >>> Best regards >>> Giorgio >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio >>> Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento >>> INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl >>> Lecce (Italy) <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] >>> <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 >>> 0832 >>> 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 >>> >>> >>> Il 01/10/2014 08:39, SureAndClean ha scritto: >>>> Hello Volko, >>>> >>>> many thanks for your answer. >>>> >>>> I try to be more specific: I examine with an USB microscope (140 X) a ceramic flat surface. >>>> The surface presents open holes whose average diameter is less than 0.1 mm. >>>> My need is to be able, by elaborating the images I take, to create a sort of map where I outline the open holes and to get an idea of their depth (comparative purpose only). >>>> This since I would like to compare the surface after chemical treatments meant to seal the holes. >>>> >>>> Many thanks in advance, >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> Stefano >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Messaggio originale----- >>>> Da: ImageJ Interest Group [ <mailto:[hidden email]> mailto:[hidden email]] Per conto di >>>> Volko Straub >>>> Inviato: mercoledì 1 ottobre 2014 08:00 >>>> A: <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] >>>> Oggetto: Re: I: HELP >>>> >>>> Hi Stefano, >>>> >>>> Could you be a bit more specific what you actually try to measure? The image is not very clear and I doubt that you will get any useful data from such an image, but I am not an expert on 'porosity'. Perhaps if you could specify more clearly what you actually try to measure and indicate the structures that you are interested in, you might stand a better chance to get an answer to your question that actually helps you. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Volko >>>> >>>> >>>> On 01/10/2014 06:40, SureAndClean wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> does anyone knows how can I use Image J to check the open porosity >>>>> of the surface in the attached picture? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks a million for your support, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Stefano >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> - >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Giorgio De Nunzio >> Dipart. di Matematica e Fisica "Ennio De Giorgi", Univ. del Salento >> INFN Sezione di Lecce ADAM (Advanced Data Analysis in Medicine) srl >> Lecce (Italy) <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email] tel +39 0832 297084-297051 fax +39 0832 >> 297100 mobile +39 320 3829845 >> >> >> >> --- >> Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! 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