Threats on Mac OSX Java ?

[lechristophe]

I just read an article about the notes accompanying today's Java
update for Mac OSX :
<a href="http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1">http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1

The first paragraph reads :

Java Deprecation
As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
deprecated.
This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at
the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.
The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X
10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the
standard support cycles of those products.

I know this list is more oriented toward ImageJ use, but I'm worrying
about the future of Java (given Oracle's acquisition of Sun and its
attitude towards projects such as Open Office), and specially on the
mac platform, which I use primarily, given the evolution of Apple
attitude (plus they won't allow Java apps in their "App Store" that
will ship with OSX 10.7). As I'm not a Java developer, I just wanted
to forward the info to generate thoughts about that potential problem.

Christophe

[Michael Ellis]

Christophe ,

Thanks for posting this. I'm an ImageJ developer and for some time been concerned about Apple's apparent lack of commitment to Java (no support for iPhone or iPad) and Oracle's acquisition of Sun.

Anyone know if  there are any for 3rd party JVMs planned for Apple OS-X?

Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?

Anyone know about the intentions for ImageJ (or what ever may replace it) should Java go poof in a cloud of roasted coffee bean scented smoke?

Anyone know what  are the alternatives to Java easy cross platform development?

-- Michael Ellis



On 21 Oct 2010, at 15:17, Christophe Leterrier wrote:

> I just read an article about the notes accompanying today's Java
> update for Mac OSX :
> <a href="http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1">http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1
>
> The first paragraph reads :
>
> Java Deprecation
> As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
> Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
> deprecated.
> This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at
> the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.
> The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X
> 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the
> standard support cycles of those products.
>
> I know this list is more oriented toward ImageJ use, but I'm worrying
> about the future of Java (given Oracle's acquisition of Sun and its
> attitude towards projects such as Open Office), and specially on the
> mac platform, which I use primarily, given the evolution of Apple
> attitude (plus they won't allow Java apps in their "App Store" that
> will ship with OSX 10.7). As I'm not a Java developer, I just wanted
> to forward the info to generate thoughts about that potential problem.
>
> Christophe

[Michael Doube]

> Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
They are willing to sue Google over Dalvik (Google's VM):

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/16/google_oracle_android_lawsuit/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/06/google_answers_oracle_android_lawsuit/

[Joonas Pulakka]

2010/10/22 Michael Doube <[hidden email]>

> Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
>>
> They are willing to sue Google over Dalvik (Google's VM):
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/16/google_oracle_android_lawsuit/
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/06/google_answers_oracle_android_lawsuit/
>

But then, Oracle themselves seem to be committed to maintain and develop
OpenJDK and Java SE:

http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/173782
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/176988

Java SE is currently available for Linux, Solaris and Windows platforms, so
Java support on those seems to be well maintained. Lots of discussion on the
OSX case here:
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/10/21/125222/Apple-Deprecates-Their-JVM

Regards,
Joonas

[amsmota]

*Lot's of news around it:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/21/apple_threatens_to_kill_java_on_the_mac/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20020338-260.html

And what Jobs said about it...

*"Sun (now Oracle) supplies Java for all other platforms. They have their
own release schedules, which are almost always different than ours, so the
Java we ship is always a version behind. This may not be the best way to do
it"
*
That everybody now is trying to interpret...

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1818550

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/10/22/steve-jobs-comments-on-apples-java-discontinuation/


*
* Melhores cumprimentos / Beir beannacht / Best regards
**_____________________________________________________________*
*António Manuel dos Santos Mota
Contacts: http://card.ly/amsmota
**_____________________________________________________________
If you're on a mobile phone you can add my contact
by scanning the code on the card below
*
**
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Please click on the image to enlarge
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*_____________________________________________________________
* *Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are just my opinions and  they
are not necessary right.*
*_____________________________________________________________*


On 22 October 2010 08:24, Joonas Pulakka <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2010/10/22 Michael Doube <[hidden email]>
>
> > Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
> >>
> > They are willing to sue Google over Dalvik (Google's VM):
> >
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/16/google_oracle_android_lawsuit/
> >
> >
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/06/google_answers_oracle_android_lawsuit/
> >
>
> But then, Oracle themselves seem to be committed to maintain and develop
> OpenJDK and Java SE:
>
> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/173782
> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/176988
>
> Java SE is currently available for Linux, Solaris and Windows platforms, so
> Java support on those seems to be well maintained. Lots of discussion on
> the
> OSX case here:
> http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/10/21/125222/Apple-Deprecates-Their-JVM
>
> Regards,
> Joonas
>

[Daniel James White]

Hi All,


On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:00 AM, IMAGEJ automatic digest system wrote:

> Date:    Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:50:38 +0100
> From:    "[hidden email]"
>         <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Threats on Mac OSX Java ?
>
> Christophe ,
>
> Thanks for posting this. I'm an ImageJ developer and for some time been concerned about Apple's apparent lack of commitment to Java (no support for iPhone or iPad) and Oracle's acquisition of Sun.
>
> Anyone know if  there are any for 3rd party JVMs planned for Apple OS-X?
>
> Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
>
> Anyone know about the intentions for ImageJ (or what ever may replace it) should Java go poof in a cloud of roasted coffee bean scented smoke?
>
> Anyone know what  are the alternatives to Java easy cross platform development?
>
> -- Michael Ellis
>
>
>
> On 21 Oct 2010, at 15:17, Christophe Leterrier wrote:
>
>> I just read an article about the notes accompanying today's Java
>> update for Mac OSX :
>> <a href="http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1">http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1
>>
>> The first paragraph reads :
>>
>> Java Deprecation
>> As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
>> Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
>> deprecated.
>> This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at
>> the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.
>> The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X
>> 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the
>> standard support cycles of those products.
>>
>> I know this list is more oriented toward ImageJ use, but I'm worrying
>> about the future of Java (given Oracle's acquisition of Sun and its
>> attitude towards projects such as Open Office), and specially on the
>> mac platform, which I use primarily, given the evolution of Apple
>> attitude (plus they won't allow Java apps in their "App Store" that
>> will ship with OSX 10.7). As I'm not a Java developer, I just wanted
>> to forward the info to generate thoughts about that potential problem.
>>
>> Christophe
>

I hope apple will give their java code to openJDK
and let them deal with it , as should already have been the case forever.

openJDK works for linux and BSD so a port to OSX is possible, see

http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/bsd-port-dev/2009-January/000499.html

Why apple has control over java on OSX is a mystery they and sun only know
but the community will come up with an open java for OSX one way or the other....

seems works is being sone on that already.

this will probably cause some problems for imageJ in OSX, but then thats nothing new anyway....

Dan


Dr. Daniel James White BSc. (Hons.) PhD
Senior Microscopist / Image Visualisation, Processing and Analysis
Light Microscopy and Image Processing Facilities
Max Planck Institute of Molecular Cell Biology and Genetics
Pfotenhauerstrasse 108
01307 DRESDEN
Germany

[phone] (German Mobile)
[phone] (Work phone at MPI-CBG)
[phone] (Fax MPI-CBG LMF)

http://www.bioimagexd.net  BioImageXD
http://pacific.mpi-cbg.de                Fiji -  is just ImageJ (Batteries Included)
http://www.chalkie.org.uk                Dan's Homepages
https://ifn.mpi-cbg.de  Dresden Imaging Facility Network
dan (at) chalkie.org.uk
( white (at) mpi-cbg.de )

[Michael Ellis]

Well, that's reassuring news for ImageJ users that Oracle appear to be committed to Java.

Now us developers who sit in front of an Apple box will just have to sit tight and wait for an announcement from Oracle (or anyone else)  as to whether they'll bring us a JVM for Christmas 2011, 2012, 20...



On 22 Oct 2010, at 08:24, Joonas Pulakka wrote:

> 2010/10/22 Michael Doube <[hidden email]>
>
>> Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
>>>
>> They are willing to sue Google over Dalvik (Google's VM):
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/16/google_oracle_android_lawsuit/
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/06/google_answers_oracle_android_lawsuit/
>>
>
> But then, Oracle themselves seem to be committed to maintain and develop
> OpenJDK and Java SE:
>
> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/173782
> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/176988
>
> Java SE is currently available for Linux, Solaris and Windows platforms, so
> Java support on those seems to be well maintained. Lots of discussion on the
> OSX case here:
> http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/10/21/125222/Apple-Deprecates-Their-JVM
>
> Regards,
> Joonas

[ctrueden]

Hi Michael & Christophe,

I'm an ImageJ developer and for some time been concerned about Apple's
> apparent lack of commitment to Java (no support for iPhone or iPad) and
> Oracle's acquisition of Sun.
>

I agree that the lack of Java on iPhone and iPad is unfortunate. However, I
believe it is premature to worry about Java's future. As others have pointed
out, Oracle seems generally committed to Java's future.

Anyone know if  there are any for 3rd party JVMs planned for Apple OS-X?
>

Yep, OpenJDK 7 (if that counts as 3rd party) works on Mac OS X. And after
this news about Apple discontinuing direct Java support, I'm guessing we'll
see a push from the community to make it work really well.

Anyone know what  are the alternatives to Java easy cross platform
> development?
>

For desktop applications, the main alternatives I have seen are Python
(easy), C++ (fast), or a combination of the two (can be both!). For example,
CellProfiler 2.0 is written in Python and makes use of standard native
libraries such as NumPy and SciPy for fast numerical processing.

For web applications (which are often cross-platform, of course) there are
many more choices, including Python, Ruby, AJAX, PHP, Flex, Perl... the list
goes on.

 Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
>

It is worth noting that Python and Ruby have gotten extremely popular
entirely without corporate sponsorship (as far as I know), and follow open
source design principles. Now that Java is open source as well, and already
extremely popular (see http://www.langpop.com/ for some statistics), it
seems unlikely that Oracle could kill Java even if it tried. More likely is
that Java will eventually be outcompeted by some other language, but I think
that is many years in coming.

 Anyone know about the intentions for ImageJ (or what ever may replace it)
> should Java go poof in a cloud of roasted coffee bean scented smoke?
>

Hypothetically, we could reimplement ImageJ using one of the options listed
above. But realistically it just won't happen. Even if there was some huge
patent scandal surrounding Java that no one saw coming, most likely someone
would just receive a big settlement from someone else and Java development
would continue. There is simply too much enterprise code depending on it for
it to be otherwise. If you don't believe me, think back to the Y2K bug: even
though COBOL had been "dead" for years, suddenly a bunch of COBOL
programmers were needed to fix all the code still in production.

If anything, I think Java on Mac OS X will get better. As Steve Jobs said in
response to their decision:

Sun (now Oracle) supplies Java for all other platforms. They have their own
release schedules, which are almost always different than ours, so the Java
we ship is always a version behind. This may not be the best way to do it.

Maybe we'll finally have an up-to-date JVM on the Mac now.

-Curtis

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:50 PM, [hidden email] <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Christophe ,
>
> Thanks for posting this. I'm an ImageJ developer and for some time been
> concerned about Apple's apparent lack of commitment to Java (no support for
> iPhone or iPad) and Oracle's acquisition of Sun.
>
> Anyone know if  there are any for 3rd party JVMs planned for Apple OS-X?
>
> Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
>
> Anyone know about the intentions for ImageJ (or what ever may replace it)
> should Java go poof in a cloud of roasted coffee bean scented smoke?
>
> Anyone know what  are the alternatives to Java easy cross platform
> development?
>
> -- Michael Ellis
>
>
>
> On 21 Oct 2010, at 15:17, Christophe Leterrier wrote:
>
> > I just read an article about the notes accompanying today's Java
> > update for Mac OSX :
> >
> <a href="http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1">http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1
> >
> > The first paragraph reads :
> >
> > Java Deprecation
> > As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
> > Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
> > deprecated.
> > This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at
> > the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.
> > The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X
> > 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the
> > standard support cycles of those products.
> >
> > I know this list is more oriented toward ImageJ use, but I'm worrying
> > about the future of Java (given Oracle's acquisition of Sun and its
> > attitude towards projects such as Open Office), and specially on the
> > mac platform, which I use primarily, given the evolution of Apple
> > attitude (plus they won't allow Java apps in their "App Store" that
> > will ship with OSX 10.7). As I'm not a Java developer, I just wanted
> > to forward the info to generate thoughts about that potential problem.
> >
> > Christophe
>

[dscho]

Hi,

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010, Christophe Leterrier wrote:

> I just read an article about the notes accompanying today's Java update
> for Mac OSX :
> <a href="http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1">http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1
>
> The first paragraph reads :
>
> Java Deprecation
>
> As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
> Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
> deprecated. This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be
> maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of
> Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and
> Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained
> through the standard support cycles of those products.

There is a petition now:

        http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/macjdk

This is something where even non-developers can become active.

Ciao,
Dscho

[dscho]

Hi,

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010, Johannes Schindelin wrote:

> There is a petition now:
>
> http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/macjdk

Just to clarify: you do _not_ need to donate if you just want to sign the
petition!

Ciao,
Johannes

[lechristophe]

Just to keep the list informed: it seems that we will have a happy ending !
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12openjdk.html

Christophe

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 01:51, Curtis Rueden <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Michael & Christophe,
>
> I'm an ImageJ developer and for some time been concerned about Apple's
> > apparent lack of commitment to Java (no support for iPhone or iPad) and
> > Oracle's acquisition of Sun.
> >
>
> I agree that the lack of Java on iPhone and iPad is unfortunate. However, I
> believe it is premature to worry about Java's future. As others have
> pointed
> out, Oracle seems generally committed to Java's future.
>
> Anyone know if  there are any for 3rd party JVMs planned for Apple OS-X?
> >
>
> Yep, OpenJDK 7 (if that counts as 3rd party) works on Mac OS X. And after
> this news about Apple discontinuing direct Java support, I'm guessing we'll
> see a push from the community to make it work really well.
>
> Anyone know what  are the alternatives to Java easy cross platform
> > development?
> >
>
> For desktop applications, the main alternatives I have seen are Python
> (easy), C++ (fast), or a combination of the two (can be both!). For
> example,
> CellProfiler 2.0 is written in Python and makes use of standard native
> libraries such as NumPy and SciPy for fast numerical processing.
>
> For web applications (which are often cross-platform, of course) there are
> many more choices, including Python, Ruby, AJAX, PHP, Flex, Perl... the
> list
> goes on.
>
>  Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
> >
>
> It is worth noting that Python and Ruby have gotten extremely popular
> entirely without corporate sponsorship (as far as I know), and follow open
> source design principles. Now that Java is open source as well, and already
> extremely popular (see http://www.langpop.com/ for some statistics), it
> seems unlikely that Oracle could kill Java even if it tried. More likely is
> that Java will eventually be outcompeted by some other language, but I
> think
> that is many years in coming.
>
>  Anyone know about the intentions for ImageJ (or what ever may replace it)
> > should Java go poof in a cloud of roasted coffee bean scented smoke?
> >
>
> Hypothetically, we could reimplement ImageJ using one of the options listed
> above. But realistically it just won't happen. Even if there was some huge
> patent scandal surrounding Java that no one saw coming, most likely someone
> would just receive a big settlement from someone else and Java development
> would continue. There is simply too much enterprise code depending on it
> for
> it to be otherwise. If you don't believe me, think back to the Y2K bug:
> even
> though COBOL had been "dead" for years, suddenly a bunch of COBOL
> programmers were needed to fix all the code still in production.
>
> If anything, I think Java on Mac OS X will get better. As Steve Jobs said
> in
> response to their decision:
>
> Sun (now Oracle) supplies Java for all other platforms. They have their own
> release schedules, which are almost always different than ours, so the Java
> we ship is always a version behind. This may not be the best way to do it.
>
> Maybe we'll finally have an up-to-date JVM on the Mac now.
>
> -Curtis
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:50 PM, [hidden email] <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Christophe ,
> >
> > Thanks for posting this. I'm an ImageJ developer and for some time been
> > concerned about Apple's apparent lack of commitment to Java (no support
> for
> > iPhone or iPad) and Oracle's acquisition of Sun.
> >
> > Anyone know if  there are any for 3rd party JVMs planned for Apple OS-X?
> >
> > Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
> >
> > Anyone know about the intentions for ImageJ (or what ever may replace it)
> > should Java go poof in a cloud of roasted coffee bean scented smoke?
> >
> > Anyone know what  are the alternatives to Java easy cross platform
> > development?
> >
> > -- Michael Ellis
> >
> >
> >
> > On 21 Oct 2010, at 15:17, Christophe Leterrier wrote:
> >
> > > I just read an article about the notes accompanying today's Java
> > > update for Mac OSX :
> > >
> >
> <a href="http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1">http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1
> > >
> > > The first paragraph reads :
> > >
> > > Java Deprecation
> > > As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
> > > Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
> > > deprecated.
> > > This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at
> > > the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.
> > > The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X
> > > 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the
> > > standard support cycles of those products.
> > >
> > > I know this list is more oriented toward ImageJ use, but I'm worrying
> > > about the future of Java (given Oracle's acquisition of Sun and its
> > > attitude towards projects such as Open Office), and specially on the
> > > mac platform, which I use primarily, given the evolution of Apple
> > > attitude (plus they won't allow Java apps in their "App Store" that
> > > will ship with OSX 10.7). As I'm not a Java developer, I just wanted
> > > to forward the info to generate thoughts about that potential problem.
> > >
> > > Christophe
> >
>

[Michael Ellis]

Oh I do like happy endings!

I have hopes that this will be the best thing to happen to Java on the Mac. Perhaps we'll see the Mac release keeping more up to date once this all gets under way.

Oracle's plans for Java look quite exciting too, especially JVM support for other/new languages.

-- Michael Ellis



On 12 Nov 2010, at 15:46, Christophe Leterrier wrote:

> Just to keep the list informed: it seems that we will have a happy ending !
> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12openjdk.html
>
> Christophe
>
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 01:51, Curtis Rueden <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael & Christophe,
>>
>> I'm an ImageJ developer and for some time been concerned about Apple's
>>> apparent lack of commitment to Java (no support for iPhone or iPad) and
>>> Oracle's acquisition of Sun.
>>>
>>
>> I agree that the lack of Java on iPhone and iPad is unfortunate. However, I
>> believe it is premature to worry about Java's future. As others have
>> pointed
>> out, Oracle seems generally committed to Java's future.
>>
>> Anyone know if  there are any for 3rd party JVMs planned for Apple OS-X?
>>>
>>
>> Yep, OpenJDK 7 (if that counts as 3rd party) works on Mac OS X. And after
>> this news about Apple discontinuing direct Java support, I'm guessing we'll
>> see a push from the community to make it work really well.
>>
>> Anyone know what  are the alternatives to Java easy cross platform
>>> development?
>>>
>>
>> For desktop applications, the main alternatives I have seen are Python
>> (easy), C++ (fast), or a combination of the two (can be both!). For
>> example,
>> CellProfiler 2.0 is written in Python and makes use of standard native
>> libraries such as NumPy and SciPy for fast numerical processing.
>>
>> For web applications (which are often cross-platform, of course) there are
>> many more choices, including Python, Ruby, AJAX, PHP, Flex, Perl... the
>> list
>> goes on.
>>
>> Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
>>>
>>
>> It is worth noting that Python and Ruby have gotten extremely popular
>> entirely without corporate sponsorship (as far as I know), and follow open
>> source design principles. Now that Java is open source as well, and already
>> extremely popular (see http://www.langpop.com/ for some statistics), it
>> seems unlikely that Oracle could kill Java even if it tried. More likely is
>> that Java will eventually be outcompeted by some other language, but I
>> think
>> that is many years in coming.
>>
>> Anyone know about the intentions for ImageJ (or what ever may replace it)
>>> should Java go poof in a cloud of roasted coffee bean scented smoke?
>>>
>>
>> Hypothetically, we could reimplement ImageJ using one of the options listed
>> above. But realistically it just won't happen. Even if there was some huge
>> patent scandal surrounding Java that no one saw coming, most likely someone
>> would just receive a big settlement from someone else and Java development
>> would continue. There is simply too much enterprise code depending on it
>> for
>> it to be otherwise. If you don't believe me, think back to the Y2K bug:
>> even
>> though COBOL had been "dead" for years, suddenly a bunch of COBOL
>> programmers were needed to fix all the code still in production.
>>
>> If anything, I think Java on Mac OS X will get better. As Steve Jobs said
>> in
>> response to their decision:
>>
>> Sun (now Oracle) supplies Java for all other platforms. They have their own
>> release schedules, which are almost always different than ours, so the Java
>> we ship is always a version behind. This may not be the best way to do it.
>>
>> Maybe we'll finally have an up-to-date JVM on the Mac now.
>>
>> -Curtis
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:50 PM, [hidden email] <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Christophe ,
>>>
>>> Thanks for posting this. I'm an ImageJ developer and for some time been
>>> concerned about Apple's apparent lack of commitment to Java (no support
>> for
>>> iPhone or iPad) and Oracle's acquisition of Sun.
>>>
>>> Anyone know if  there are any for 3rd party JVMs planned for Apple OS-X?
>>>
>>> Anyone know what Oracle's commitment to Java is?
>>>
>>> Anyone know about the intentions for ImageJ (or what ever may replace it)
>>> should Java go poof in a cloud of roasted coffee bean scented smoke?
>>>
>>> Anyone know what  are the alternatives to Java easy cross platform
>>> development?
>>>
>>> -- Michael Ellis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21 Oct 2010, at 15:17, Christophe Leterrier wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just read an article about the notes accompanying today's Java
>>>> update for Mac OSX :
>>>>
>>>
>> <a href="http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1">http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-SW1
>>>>
>>>> The first paragraph reads :
>>>>
>>>> Java Deprecation
>>>> As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of
>>>> Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is
>>>> deprecated.
>>>> This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at
>>>> the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.
>>>> The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X
>>>> 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the
>>>> standard support cycles of those products.
>>>>
>>>> I know this list is more oriented toward ImageJ use, but I'm worrying
>>>> about the future of Java (given Oracle's acquisition of Sun and its
>>>> attitude towards projects such as Open Office), and specially on the
>>>> mac platform, which I use primarily, given the evolution of Apple
>>>> attitude (plus they won't allow Java apps in their "App Store" that
>>>> will ship with OSX 10.7). As I'm not a Java developer, I just wanted
>>>> to forward the info to generate thoughts about that potential problem.
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>

[dscho]

Hi,

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Christophe Leterrier wrote:

> Just to keep the list informed: it seems that we will have a happy
> ending ! http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/11/12openjdk.html

See also

http://wikis.sun.com/display/OpenJDK/Mac+OS+X+Port

and

http://wikis.sun.com/display/OpenJDK/Mac+OS+X+Port+Project+Status

and

http://hg.openjdk.java.net/macosx-port/macosx-port/jdk/

Ciao,
Johannes