What does ImageJ stand for?
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Dear listers,
in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list <Bad URL Removed - see why - https://ees.sps.nih.gov/services/Pages/Anti-Virus.aspx?A2=ind2106&L=IMAGEJ&P=R8899>, Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent terminological changes. Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should like to post my understanding of the situation. 1. A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) 2. Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a different or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what he calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such as "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". ---------------------------------------- I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will puzzle not only me. Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? ---------------------------------------- Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be regarded as elements of ImageJ. All opinions welcome... Herbie :::::::::::::::::::: -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
Re: What does ImageJ stand for?
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Let’s not forget (well, maybe we should?) “NIH Image”.
-- Kenneth Sloan [hidden email] Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others. -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Sure Kenneth,
but the the topic is "ImageJ" and its recently changed meaning. Regards Herbie ___________________________________________ PS: In general we should not forget about “NIH Image”. It was a milestone! ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Am 12.06.21 um 15:17 schrieb Kenneth Sloan: > Let’s not forget (well, maybe we should?) “NIH Image”. > -- > Kenneth Sloan > [hidden email] > Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others. > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by Herbie
The link to my previous question (list post) is:
<http://imagej.1557.x6.nabble.com/File-formats-and-pixel-size-tp5024686p5024713.html> Am 12.06.21 um 13:01 schrieb Herbie: > Dear listers, > > in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list > <http://imagej.1557.x6.nabble.com/File-formats-and-pixel-size-tp5024686p5024713.html>, > Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent > terminological changes. > Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list > yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should > like to post my understanding of the situation. > > 1. > A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented > and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing > software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. > (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) > > 2. > Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a different > or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). > From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what he > calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such as > "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". > > ---------------------------------------- > I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific > _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will > puzzle not only me. > > Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of > "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? > ---------------------------------------- > > Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne > Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be regarded > as elements of ImageJ. > > All opinions welcome... > > Herbie > :::::::::::::::::::: > > > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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All- Wayne can correct me as needed, but when I was working in the same building at NIH, he originally developed the software for Macs and it was called NIH Image. My lab converted to Macs in part because of that and I have been using them ever since. When he made it a multiplatform application, he used Java and termed it ImageJ.
-Bruce On 6/12/21, 10:08, "ImageJ Interest Group on behalf of Herbie" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote: The link to my previous question (list post) is: <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagej.1557.x6.nabble.com%2FFile-formats-and-pixel-size-tp5024686p5024713.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbruce.citron%40rutgers.edu%7C097e779266b94066775a08d92dab96f1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C637591037275720291%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=agVkGj%2BoUNz9q1LI%2BCmWLniOKK%2Bu9DfabQhMOR9CrYc%3D&reserved=0> Am 12.06.21 um 13:01 schrieb Herbie: > Dear listers, > > in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagej.1557.x6.nabble.com%2FFile-formats-and-pixel-size-tp5024686p5024713.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbruce.citron%40rutgers.edu%7C097e779266b94066775a08d92dab96f1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C637591037275720291%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=agVkGj%2BoUNz9q1LI%2BCmWLniOKK%2Bu9DfabQhMOR9CrYc%3D&reserved=0>, > Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent > terminological changes. > Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list > yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should > like to post my understanding of the situation. > > 1. > A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented > and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing > software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. > (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) > > 2. > Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a different > or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). > From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what he > calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such as > "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". > > ---------------------------------------- > I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific > _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will > puzzle not only me. > > Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of > "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? > ---------------------------------------- > > Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne > Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be regarded > as elements of ImageJ. > > All opinions welcome... > > Herbie > :::::::::::::::::::: > > > -- ImageJ mailing list: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagej.nih.gov%2Fij%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbruce.citron%40rutgers.edu%7C097e779266b94066775a08d92dab96f1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C637591037275720291%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=b0PNST9eyL%2BoeCg95pxuP16MiiGewrBulEtt9AYcysQ%3D&reserved=0 -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Thank you Bruce,
regarding the topic, "[... Wayne] made it a multiplatform application, he used Java and termed it ImageJ." is essential. As far as I remember, the origins of "ImageJ" date back to about 1997. Regards Herbie ___________________________________________ PS: What you write about “NIH Image” appears correct to me. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Am 12.06.21 um 16:35 schrieb Bruce Citron: > All- Wayne can correct me as needed, but when I was working in the same building at NIH, he originally developed the software for Macs and it was called NIH Image. My lab converted to Macs in part because of that and I have been using them ever since. When he made it a multiplatform application, he used Java and termed it ImageJ. > -Bruce > > On 6/12/21, 10:08, "ImageJ Interest Group on behalf of Herbie" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote: > > The link to my previous question (list post) is: > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagej.1557.x6.nabble.com%2FFile-formats-and-pixel-size-tp5024686p5024713.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbruce.citron%40rutgers.edu%7C097e779266b94066775a08d92dab96f1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C637591037275720291%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=agVkGj%2BoUNz9q1LI%2BCmWLniOKK%2Bu9DfabQhMOR9CrYc%3D&reserved=0> > > Am 12.06.21 um 13:01 schrieb Herbie: > > Dear listers, > > > > in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list > > <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagej.1557.x6.nabble.com%2FFile-formats-and-pixel-size-tp5024686p5024713.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbruce.citron%40rutgers.edu%7C097e779266b94066775a08d92dab96f1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C637591037275720291%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=agVkGj%2BoUNz9q1LI%2BCmWLniOKK%2Bu9DfabQhMOR9CrYc%3D&reserved=0>, > > Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent > > terminological changes. > > Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list > > yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should > > like to post my understanding of the situation. > > > > 1. > > A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented > > and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing > > software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. > > (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) > > > > 2. > > Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a different > > or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). > > From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what he > > calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such as > > "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific > > _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will > > puzzle not only me. > > > > Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of > > "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne > > Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be regarded > > as elements of ImageJ. > > > > All opinions welcome... > > > > Herbie > > :::::::::::::::::::: > > > > > > > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagej.nih.gov%2Fij%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cbruce.citron%40rutgers.edu%7C097e779266b94066775a08d92dab96f1%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C1%7C637591037275720291%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=b0PNST9eyL%2BoeCg95pxuP16MiiGewrBulEtt9AYcysQ%3D&reserved=0 > > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
Re: What does ImageJ stand for?
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In reply to this post by Bruce Citron
Right. At the time, I was doing all my imaging work on Sun workstations, and NIH was not an advance over what we had locally. So, I ignored NIH Image. At the time, I maintained a library of image-conversion tools from every known image format into and out of our own image format (a crude pre-cursor to TIFF). All in C,
ImageJ was a distinct improvement. I still tend to “roll my own” processing tools, using ImageJ as a kind of “image OS”. Multi-platform, and not having to worry about conversions, are the big plusses, for me. -- Kenneth Sloan [hidden email] Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others. -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by Herbie
Dear all,
As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw ImageJ branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji (which I have used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda morphed into an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" such as ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is an interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or something from the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by the original creator)? Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. Christophe Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : > Dear listers, > > in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list > <Bad URL Removed - see why - > https://ees.sps.nih.gov/services/Pages/Anti-Virus.aspx?A2=ind2106&L=IMAGEJ&P=R8899 > >, > Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent > terminological changes. > Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list > yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should > like to post my understanding of the situation. > > 1. > A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented > and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing > software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. > (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) > > 2. > Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a different > or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). > From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what he > calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such as > "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". > > ---------------------------------------- > I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific > _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will > puzzle not only me. > > Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of > "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? > ---------------------------------------- > > Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne > Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be regarded > as elements of ImageJ. > > All opinions welcome... > > Herbie > :::::::::::::::::::: > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about ImageJ
trademarking in 2015 https://forum.image.sc/t/imagej-trademark-of-uw-madison/433 Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the contest is here from the end of 2017: https://forum.image.sc/t/contest-new-imagej-logo/8485 there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the choice of the current logo. Christophe Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < [hidden email]> a écrit : > Dear all, > > As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw ImageJ > branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji (which I have > used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda morphed into > an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes > corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" such as > ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. > > Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux > distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is an > interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or something from > the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by the original creator)? > > Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the > software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public > domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of > derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. > > Christophe > > > > Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : > >> Dear listers, >> >> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list >> <Bad URL Removed - see why - >> https://ees.sps.nih.gov/services/Pages/Anti-Virus.aspx?A2=ind2106&L=IMAGEJ&P=R8899 >> >, >> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent >> terminological changes. >> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list >> yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should >> like to post my understanding of the situation. >> >> 1. >> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented >> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing >> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. >> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) >> >> 2. >> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a different >> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). >> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what he >> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such as >> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific >> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will >> puzzle not only me. >> >> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of >> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne >> Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be regarded >> as elements of ImageJ. >> >> All opinions welcome... >> >> Herbie >> :::::::::::::::::::: >> >> -- >> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >> > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Thanks Christophe!
"Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public domain." -- First, ImageJ1 is not the name Wayne used for the software he developed. -- Second and legal questions aside, isn't it simply a question of fairness (especially in science) to not use the name of a renowned piece of scientific software for a whole group of software that was in great part (MB) not written by its author? Apart from that and as I wrote before, it is generally not a good idea to (later) use a specific term (ImageJ as a single stand-alone software) _also_ as a generic term (ImageJ as "software ecosystem" comprising differently named stand-alone software products) in the same field. Best Herbie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: lechristophe wrote > Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about ImageJ > trademarking in 2015 > https://forum.image.sc/t/imagej-trademark-of-uw-madison/433 > > Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the contest > is > here from the end of 2017: > https://forum.image.sc/t/contest-new-imagej-logo/8485 > > there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the choice of > the current logo. > > Christophe > > > > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < > christophe.leterrier@ >> a écrit : > >> Dear all, >> >> As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw ImageJ >> branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji (which I have >> used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda morphed into >> an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes >> corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" such as >> ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. >> >> Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux >> distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is an >> interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or something >> from >> the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by the original creator)? >> >> Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the >> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public >> domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of >> derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. >> >> Christophe >> >> >> >> Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie < > l16@ > > a écrit : >> >>> Dear listers, >>> >>> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list >>> <Bad URL Removed - see why - > >> > https://ees.sps.nih.gov/services/Pages/Anti-Virus.aspx?A2=ind2106&L=IMAGEJ&P=R8899 >>> >, >>> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent >>> terminological changes. >>> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list >>> yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should >>> like to post my understanding of the situation. >>> >>> 1. >>> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented >>> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing >>> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. >>> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) >>> >>> 2. >>> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a different >>> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). >>> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what he >>> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such as >>> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific >>> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will >>> puzzle not only me. >>> >>> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of >>> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> >>> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne >>> Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be regarded >>> as elements of ImageJ. >>> >>> All opinions welcome... >>> >>> Herbie >>> :::::::::::::::::::: >>> >>> -- >>> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >>> >> > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html -- Sent from: http://imagej.1557.x6.nabble.com/ -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by lechristophe
Dear Christophe,
I remember well my 2015-request on the Forum but I see no immediate relation to the current list-thread because I never ever claimed that the term "ImageJ" is trademarked. I was aware of the Logo-contest but didn't understand what purpose a new logo should serve for. Perhaps it was mentioned somewhere... Best Herbie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Am 13.06.21 um 10:54 schrieb Christophe Leterrier: > Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about ImageJ > trademarking in 2015 > https://forum.image.sc/t/imagej-trademark-of-uw-madison/433 > > Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the contest is > here from the end of 2017: > https://forum.image.sc/t/contest-new-imagej-logo/8485 > > there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the choice of > the current logo. > > Christophe > > > > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < > [hidden email]> a écrit : > >> Dear all, >> >> As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw ImageJ >> branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji (which I have >> used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda morphed into >> an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes >> corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" such as >> ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. >> >> Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux >> distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is an >> interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or something from >> the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by the original creator)? >> >> Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the >> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public >> domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of >> derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. >> >> Christophe >> >> >> >> Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : >> >>> Dear listers, >>> >>> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list >>> <Bad URL Removed - see why - >>> https://ees.sps.nih.gov/services/Pages/Anti-Virus.aspx?A2=ind2106&L=IMAGEJ&P=R8899 >>>> , >>> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent >>> terminological changes. >>> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list >>> yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should >>> like to post my understanding of the situation. >>> >>> 1. >>> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented >>> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing >>> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. >>> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) >>> >>> 2. >>> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a different >>> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). >>> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what he >>> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such as >>> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific >>> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will >>> puzzle not only me. >>> >>> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of >>> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> >>> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne >>> Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be regarded >>> as elements of ImageJ. >>> >>> All opinions welcome... >>> >>> Herbie >>> :::::::::::::::::::: >>> >>> -- >>> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >>> >> > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by Herbie
As I wrote, if thousands of developpers can understand what they talk about
when they mention "Linux" I think we can manage to use "ImageJ" for several related things without any risk of damage Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 15:48, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : > Thanks Christophe! > > "Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the > software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public > domain." > > -- First, ImageJ1 is not the name Wayne used for the software he developed. > > -- Second and legal questions aside, isn't it simply a question of fairness > (especially in science) to not use the name of a renowned piece of > scientific software for a whole group of software that was in great part > (MB) not written by its author? > > Apart from that and as I wrote before, it is generally not a good idea to > (later) use a specific term (ImageJ as a single stand-alone software) > _also_ > as a generic term (ImageJ as "software ecosystem" comprising differently > named stand-alone software products) in the same field. > > Best > > Herbie > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > lechristophe wrote > > Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about ImageJ > > trademarking in 2015 > > https://forum.image.sc/t/imagej-trademark-of-uw-madison/433 > > > > Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the contest > > is > > here from the end of 2017: > > https://forum.image.sc/t/contest-new-imagej-logo/8485 > > > > there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the choice of > > the current logo. > > > > Christophe > > > > > > > > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < > > > christophe.leterrier@ > > >> a écrit : > > > >> Dear all, > >> > >> As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw ImageJ > >> branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji (which I have > >> used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda morphed > into > >> an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes > >> corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" such as > >> ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. > >> > >> Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux > >> distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is an > >> interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or something > >> from > >> the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by the original > creator)? > >> > >> Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the > >> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public > >> domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of > >> derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. > >> > >> Christophe > >> > >> > >> > >> Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie < > > > l16@ > > > > a écrit : > >> > >>> Dear listers, > >>> > >>> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list > >>> <Bad URL Removed - see why - > > >> > > > https://ees.sps.nih.gov/services/Pages/Anti-Virus.aspx?A2=ind2106&L=IMAGEJ&P=R8899 > >>> >, > >>> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent > >>> terminological changes. > >>> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list > >>> yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should > >>> like to post my understanding of the situation. > >>> > >>> 1. > >>> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented > >>> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing > >>> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. > >>> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) > >>> > >>> 2. > >>> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a > different > >>> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). > >>> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what > he > >>> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such > as > >>> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------- > >>> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific > >>> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will > >>> puzzle not only me. > >>> > >>> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of > >>> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? > >>> ---------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne > >>> Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be > regarded > >>> as elements of ImageJ. > >>> > >>> All opinions welcome... > >>> > >>> Herbie > >>> :::::::::::::::::::: > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > >>> > >> > > > > -- > > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://imagej.1557.x6.nabble.com/ > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Yes, Christophe,
that's exactly the question... However, these thousands don't create a dedicated logo for this kind of "shorthand" term. Best Herbie :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Am 13.06.21 um 16:41 schrieb Christophe Leterrier: > As I wrote, if thousands of developpers can understand what they talk about > when they mention "Linux" I think we can manage to use "ImageJ" for several > related things without any risk of damage > > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 15:48, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : > >> Thanks Christophe! >> >> "Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the >> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public >> domain." >> >> -- First, ImageJ1 is not the name Wayne used for the software he developed. >> >> -- Second and legal questions aside, isn't it simply a question of fairness >> (especially in science) to not use the name of a renowned piece of >> scientific software for a whole group of software that was in great part >> (MB) not written by its author? >> >> Apart from that and as I wrote before, it is generally not a good idea to >> (later) use a specific term (ImageJ as a single stand-alone software) >> _also_ >> as a generic term (ImageJ as "software ecosystem" comprising differently >> named stand-alone software products) in the same field. >> >> Best >> >> Herbie >> >> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >> >> lechristophe wrote >>> Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about ImageJ >>> trademarking in 2015 >>> https://forum.image.sc/t/imagej-trademark-of-uw-madison/433 >>> >>> Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the contest >>> is >>> here from the end of 2017: >>> https://forum.image.sc/t/contest-new-imagej-logo/8485 >>> >>> there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the choice of >>> the current logo. >>> >>> Christophe >>> >>> >>> >>> Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < >> >>> christophe.leterrier@ >> >>>> a écrit : >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw ImageJ >>>> branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji (which I have >>>> used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda morphed >> into >>>> an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes >>>> corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" such as >>>> ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. >>>> >>>> Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux >>>> distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is an >>>> interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or something >>>> from >>>> the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by the original >> creator)? >>>> >>>> Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the >>>> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public >>>> domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of >>>> derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. >>>> >>>> Christophe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie < >> >>> l16@ >> >>> > a écrit : >>>> >>>>> Dear listers, >>>>> >>>>> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list >>>>> <Bad URL Removed - see why - >>> >> >>> >> https://ees.sps.nih.gov/services/Pages/Anti-Virus.aspx?A2=ind2106&L=IMAGEJ&P=R8899 >>>>>> , >>>>> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding recent >>>>> terminological changes. >>>>> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list >>>>> yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I should >>>>> like to post my understanding of the situation. >>>>> >>>>> 1. >>>>> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, implemented >>>>> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image processing >>>>> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. >>>>> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) >>>>> >>>>> 2. >>>>> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a >> different >>>>> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). >>>>> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for what >> he >>>>> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" such >> as >>>>> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a specific >>>>> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage will >>>>> puzzle not only me. >>>>> >>>>> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of >>>>> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? >>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne >>>>> Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be >> regarded >>>>> as elements of ImageJ. >>>>> >>>>> All opinions welcome... >>>>> >>>>> Herbie >>>>> :::::::::::::::::::: >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://imagej.1557.x6.nabble.com/ >> >> -- >> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >> > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by lechristophe
Greetings,
To be pedantic, there are no Linux distributions called "Linux" and generally for those who don't know the difference between a kernel and a distribution it would not help the resolution to their issue to know this. Since I only use ImageJ, i.e., ImageJ1, I get frustrated when searching for new things or resolutions to problems to find out the hard / embarrassing way that what I found was specifically for FIJI and not ImageJ1. I find quite often, the FIJI documentation referred to itself as ImageJ and not blatantly as FIJI. Fred On Sun, June 13, 2021 9:41 am, Christophe Leterrier wrote: > As I wrote, if thousands of developpers can understand what they talk > about > when they mention "Linux" I think we can manage to use "ImageJ" for > several > related things without any risk of damage > > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 15:48, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : > >> Thanks Christophe! >> >> "Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the >> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been public >> domain." >> >> -- First, ImageJ1 is not the name Wayne used for the software he >> developed. >> >> -- Second and legal questions aside, isn't it simply a question of >> fairness >> (especially in science) to not use the name of a renowned piece of >> scientific software for a whole group of software that was in great part >> (MB) not written by its author? >> >> Apart from that and as I wrote before, it is generally not a good idea >> to >> (later) use a specific term (ImageJ as a single stand-alone software) >> _also_ >> as a generic term (ImageJ as "software ecosystem" comprising differently >> named stand-alone software products) in the same field. >> >> Best >> >> Herbie >> >> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >> >> lechristophe wrote >> > Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about ImageJ >> > trademarking in 2015 >> > https://forum.image.sc/t/imagej-trademark-of-uw-madison/433 >> > >> > Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the >> contest >> > is >> > here from the end of 2017: >> > https://forum.image.sc/t/contest-new-imagej-logo/8485 >> > >> > there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the choice >> of >> > the current logo. >> > >> > Christophe >> > >> > >> > >> > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < >> >> > christophe.leterrier@ >> >> >> a écrit : >> > >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw ImageJ >> >> branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji (which I >> have >> >> used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda morphed >> into >> >> an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes >> >> corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" such >> as >> >> ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. >> >> >> >> Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux >> >> distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is an >> >> interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or something >> >> from >> >> the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by the original >> creator)? >> >> >> >> Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the >> >> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been >> public >> >> domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of >> >> derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. >> >> >> >> Christophe >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie < >> >> > l16@ >> >> > > a écrit : >> >> >> >>> Dear listers, >> >>> >> >>> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list >> >>> <Bad URL Removed - see why - >> > >> >> > >> https://ees.sps.nih.gov/services/Pages/Anti-Virus.aspx?A2=ind2106&L=IMAGEJ&P=R8899 >> >>> >, >> >>> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding >> recent >> >>> terminological changes. >> >>> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the list >> >>> yet, and because the further email-exchange happened off-list, I >> should >> >>> like to post my understanding of the situation. >> >>> >> >>> 1. >> >>> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, >> implemented >> >>> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image >> processing >> >>> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. >> >>> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) >> >>> >> >>> 2. >> >>> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a >> different >> >>> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). >> >>> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for >> what >> he >> >>> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" >> such >> as >> >>> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". >> >>> >> >>> ---------------------------------------- >> >>> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a >> specific >> >>> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage >> will >> >>> puzzle not only me. >> >>> >> >>> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of >> >>> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? >> >>> ---------------------------------------- >> >>> >> >>> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is Wayne >> >>> Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, should be >> regarded >> >>> as elements of ImageJ. >> >>> >> >>> All opinions welcome... >> >>> >> >>> Herbie >> >>> :::::::::::::::::::: >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://imagej.1557.x6.nabble.com/ >> >> -- >> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >> > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
Re: What does ImageJ stand for?
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I agree - it’s generally the prerogative of the author to name a system.
ImageJ is ImageJ. ImageJ2 is ImageJ2. There is no ImageJ1. -- Kenneth Sloan [hidden email] Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others. -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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The repository that Wayne updates on the ImageJ Github account is named
ImageJ1 On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 at 21:59, Kenneth Sloan <[hidden email]> wrote: > I agree - it’s generally the prerogative of the author to name a system. > > ImageJ is ImageJ. > > ImageJ2 is ImageJ2. > > There is no ImageJ1. > > -- > Kenneth Sloan > [hidden email] > Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others. > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
Re: What does ImageJ stand for?
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> On Jun 13, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Christophe Leterrier <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The repository that Wayne updates on the ImageJ Github account is named > ImageJ1 The name of the repository should probably be changed to ImageJ since that’s the name of the program. -wayne > On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 at 21:59, Kenneth Sloan <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I agree - it’s generally the prerogative of the author to name a system. >> >> ImageJ is ImageJ. >> >> ImageJ2 is ImageJ2. >> >> There is no ImageJ1. >> >> -- >> Kenneth Sloan >> [hidden email] >> Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others. >> >> -- >> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html >> > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by Fred Damen
I also use ImageJ 1.x almost exclusively as there is little of value for me to be found in the Fiji distribution as I don't work with biology. The very slow load time and poor Windows compatibility of Fiji makes me avoid it whenever possible. When I find useful plugins in Fiji, I usually try to figure out the dependencies so that I can get them to work in ImageJ 1.x. Yes, this can be a mess, but it works well for my workflow.
I agree with Herbie's thread starting post here, in that when you visit the new imagej.net pages, you get the impression that Fiji _is_ ImageJ; the pages obscures the fact that Fiji should be considered a _fork_ of the ImageJ project which has now evolved into something quite different. Fiji is often incompatible with the "classic" ImageJ program since the new plugins usually rely on a totally different code base on the bottom level. There is nothing wrong with that, and Fiji in itself is very useful, but the distinction between the two flavors should have been made more clear on the wiki. When you visit https://imagej.net/downloads the only reference to ImageJ 1.x is at the bottom, where there is a link to "old versions of ImageJ 1.x " which should instead read "the original version of ImageJ". Also, this link should have pointed to https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download.html or https://wsr.imagej.net/distros/ rather than https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download/ which is now outdated. When that is said, I see nothing wrong with the term ImageJ1. When this is used in context, it makes it much more clear that we are thinking of the "original" ImageJ version. The problem with the new wiki at imagej.net is that it uses the term ImageJ instead of ImageJ2 in too many contexts. I also see nothing wrong in using the term "ImageJ" in a broader context (including Fiji) when (and only when) you are referring to unrelated programming frameworks or image analysis ecosystems such as Amira/Avizo or MatLab. When someone says "I did the segmentation in ImageJ and analyzed the objects in Avizo" I think this phrase would mean the same both when the person used ImageJ 1.x or Fiji. Stein -----Original Message----- Sent: 13. juni 2021 20:54 Subject: Re: What does ImageJ stand for? Greetings, To be pedantic, there are no Linux distributions called "Linux" and generally for those who don't know the difference between a kernel and a distribution it would not help the resolution to their issue to know this. Since I only use ImageJ, i.e., ImageJ1, I get frustrated when searching for new things or resolutions to problems to find out the hard / embarrassing way that what I found was specifically for FIJI and not ImageJ1. I find quite often, the FIJI documentation referred to itself as ImageJ and not blatantly as FIJI. Fred On Sun, June 13, 2021 9:41 am, Christophe Leterrier wrote: > As I wrote, if thousands of developpers can understand what they talk > about when they mention "Linux" I think we can manage to use "ImageJ" > for several related things without any risk of damage > > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 15:48, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : > >> Thanks Christophe! >> >> "Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the >> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been >> public domain." >> >> -- First, ImageJ1 is not the name Wayne used for the software he >> developed. >> >> -- Second and legal questions aside, isn't it simply a question of >> fairness (especially in science) to not use the name of a renowned >> piece of scientific software for a whole group of software that was >> in great part >> (MB) not written by its author? >> >> Apart from that and as I wrote before, it is generally not a good >> idea to >> (later) use a specific term (ImageJ as a single stand-alone software) >> _also_ as a generic term (ImageJ as "software ecosystem" comprising >> differently named stand-alone software products) in the same field. >> >> Best >> >> Herbie >> >> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >> >> lechristophe wrote >> > Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about >> > ImageJ trademarking in 2015 >> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ff >> > orum.image.sc%2Ft%2Fimagej-trademark-of-uw-madison%2F433&data=0 >> > 4%7C01%7Cstein.rorvik%40sintef.no%7Ce0123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b6 >> > 1%7Ce1f00f39604145b0b309e0210d8b32af%7C1%7C1%7C637592074851749611%7 >> > CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 >> > Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=PCRoNf%2BFlfizf6aaqxY18y0lI >> > f23nAch%2FVsR4%2F6ZFlk%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the >> contest >> > is >> > here from the end of 2017: >> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ff >> > orum.image.sc%2Ft%2Fcontest-new-imagej-logo%2F8485&data=04%7C01 >> > %7Cstein.rorvik%40sintef.no%7Ce0123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b61%7Ce1 >> > f00f39604145b0b309e0210d8b32af%7C1%7C1%7C637592074851749611%7CUnkno >> > wn%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW >> > wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=piGpOaGCpG6S3kKVQGGrlPzrYipbtkuKl >> > 2WXlpjCLbY%3D&reserved=0 >> > >> > there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the >> > choice >> of >> > the current logo. >> > >> > Christophe >> > >> > >> > >> > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < >> >> > christophe.leterrier@ >> >> >> a écrit : >> > >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw >> >> ImageJ branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji >> >> (which I >> have >> >> used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda >> >> morphed >> into >> >> an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes >> >> corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" >> >> such >> as >> >> ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. >> >> >> >> Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux >> >> distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is >> >> an interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or >> >> something from the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by >> >> the original >> creator)? >> >> >> >> Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 >> >> (the software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always >> >> been >> public >> >> domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of >> >> derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. >> >> >> >> Christophe >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie < >> >> > l16@ >> >> > > a écrit : >> >> >> >>> Dear listers, >> >>> >> >>> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list <Bad >> >>> URL Removed - see why - >> > >> >> > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fees >> .sps.nih.gov%2Fservices%2FPages%2FAnti-Virus.aspx%3FA2%3Dind2106%26L% >> 3DIMAGEJ%26P%3DR8899&data=04%7C01%7Cstein.rorvik%40sintef.no%7Ce0 >> 123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b61%7Ce1f00f39604145b0b309e0210d8b32af%7C1 >> %7C1%7C637592074851749611%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA >> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=It%2 >> BXbMKCehwIMoMScMp%2BiWg15HBvaF5wvyxqiiuCbqY%3D&reserved=0 >> >>> >, >> >>> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding >> recent >> >>> terminological changes. >> >>> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the >> >>> list yet, and because the further email-exchange happened >> >>> off-list, I >> should >> >>> like to post my understanding of the situation. >> >>> >> >>> 1. >> >>> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, >> implemented >> >>> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image >> processing >> >>> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. >> >>> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) >> >>> >> >>> 2. >> >>> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a >> different >> >>> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). >> >>> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for >> what >> he >> >>> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" >> such >> as >> >>> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". >> >>> >> >>> ---------------------------------------- >> >>> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a >> specific >> >>> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage >> will >> >>> puzzle not only me. >> >>> >> >>> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of >> >>> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? >> >>> ---------------------------------------- >> >>> >> >>> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is >> >>> Wayne Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, >> >>> should be >> regarded >> >>> as elements of ImageJ. >> >>> >> >>> All opinions welcome... >> >>> >> >>> Herbie >> >>> :::::::::::::::::::: >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> ImageJ mailing list: >> >>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F >> >>> imagej.nih.gov%2Fij%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cstein.rorvik%4 >> >>> 0sintef.no%7Ce0123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b61%7Ce1f00f39604145b0b >> >>> 309e0210d8b32af%7C1%7C1%7C637592074851749611%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs >> >>> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M >> >>> n0%3D%7C3000&sdata=U5yZaaFy%2FzceyA6fvhE7aUR86uZNUNOXfbSxVELI >> >>> nWU%3D&reserved=0 >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > ImageJ mailing list: >> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fim >> > agej.nih.gov%2Fij%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cstein.rorvik%40sin >> > tef.no%7Ce0123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b61%7Ce1f00f39604145b0b309e02 >> > 10d8b32af%7C1%7C1%7C637592074851749611%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW >> > IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C30 >> > 00&sdata=U5yZaaFy%2FzceyA6fvhE7aUR86uZNUNOXfbSxVELInWU%3D&r >> > eserved=0 >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimag >> ej.1557.x6.nabble.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cstein.rorvik%40sintef.no% >> 7Ce0123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b61%7Ce1f00f39604145b0b309e0210d8b32af >> %7C1%7C1%7C637592074851749611%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA >> wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata= >> CveJ4M2khFdl56Qxi%2FRaSFH4Lwm2UOPp%2FsQ0Zaqw7PI%3D&reserved=0 >> >> -- >> ImageJ mailing list: >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimag >> ej.nih.gov%2Fij%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cstein.rorvik%40sintef. >> no%7Ce0123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b61%7Ce1f00f39604145b0b309e0210d8b3 >> 2af%7C1%7C1%7C637592074851749611%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w >> LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sda >> ta=U5yZaaFy%2FzceyA6fvhE7aUR86uZNUNOXfbSxVELInWU%3D&reserved=0 >> > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimage > j.nih.gov%2Fij%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cstein.rorvik%40sintef.no > %7Ce0123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b61%7Ce1f00f39604145b0b309e0210d8b32af > %7C1%7C1%7C637592074851759568%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw > MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=On > jzjTWvOkcgvtWp9OLHe%2BCCEz3vmJp9%2BiMmwFY7Eiw%3D&reserved=0 > -- ImageJ mailing list: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimagej.nih.gov%2Fij%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cstein.rorvik%40sintef.no%7Ce0123196eb044c352ed808d92e9d2b61%7Ce1f00f39604145b0b309e0210d8b32af%7C1%7C1%7C637592074851759568%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OnjzjTWvOkcgvtWp9OLHe%2BCCEz3vmJp9%2BiMmwFY7Eiw%3D&reserved=0 -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
Re: What does ImageJ stand for?
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Hi everyone,
In response to this thread, I have done the following: * The front page (https://imagej.net/) now says "Welcome to the ImageJ ecosystem" and shows a disambiguation box explaining about the two flavors of ImageJ, ImageJ1 and ImageJ2, with links to more information. * The downloads page (https://imagej.net/downloads) now clearly links to the download pages of both Fiji and ImageJ1, with a sidebar explaining why there is not yet a download for plain ImageJ2. * On that same page, just below the download links, there is an expandable box with the label "Need help deciding? Click here." that lists some bullet points in favor of each system. As a software engineer, I dislike marketing-style comparisons; my goal with this table was to sum up, for new users, why you might want to use each tool. Contributions to these respective bullet point lists are welcome, especially if you feel a major strength of either ImageJ1 or ImageJ2 is missing from the table—please go ahead and edit the wiki page directly. * I removed the "© ImageJ" from the imagej.net footer; it was left over from the original theme. The license for the imagej.net website is CC BY 3.0 (https://github.com/imagej/imagej.github.io/blob/main/LICENSE.txt). * I moved ImageJ2's top-level GitHub repository from https://github.com/imagej/imagej to https://github.com/imagej/imagej2. This hopefully helps clarify that imagej/imagej1 is the repository for ImageJ1, and imagej/imagej2 is the repository for ImageJ2. We should not have any repository at https://github.com/imagej/imagej because it would be ambiguous. Relatedly, it would be nice to eliminate the imagej/ImageJA repository, but I do not think it is technically feasible unless Wayne changes the ImageJ1 release workflow. * A relevant improvement that is in progress, but not yet complete, is https://github.com/imagej/imagej.github.io/issues/97: restoring the "project icon" that indicates which particular project area a page belongs to. For example, the TrackMate plugin is part of Fiji, and should have a boxed Fiji icon at the top next to the page title, which when moused over, explains that that plugin is part of Fiji. The old wiki had this feature, but we haven't finished porting it over to the new wiki yet; once this is complete, I hope it will help mitigate the confusion surrounding the scope of each wiki page. Please note that *ImageJ2 is not Fiji*. The ImageJ2 project is an initiative, funded by NIH in 2010, to expand ImageJ's utility and scope. ImageJ2 is a continuation of ImageJ, not a fork—you can think of it as a superset of ImageJ1, since one of its components is a compatibility layer with ImageJ1. ImageJ2 also includes the ImageJ Updater, ImageJ Launcher, foundational SciJava components, and other libraries. For details, see https://imagej.net/develop/architecture and/or https://doi.org/10.1186/s12859-017-1934-z. The Fiji distribution of ImageJ is a download of ImageJ2 + the Fiji plugins. ImageJ2 is distinct from Fiji, and usable separately as a software library, with or without ImageJ1 support. It is part of my group's immediate-term roadmap to enhance the ImageJ Updater, such that it becomes feasible to offer a download of ImageJ2 only without the Fiji plugins, which lets you choose individual plugins to install as you need them, rather than requiring a single monolithic Fiji update site for the Fiji plugins. Regards, Curtis -- Curtis Rueden Software architect, LOCI/Eliceiri lab - https://uw-loci.github.io/ ImageJ2 lead, Fiji maintainer - https://imagej.net/people/ctrueden On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 11:42 AM Stein Rørvik <[hidden email]> wrote: > I also use ImageJ 1.x almost exclusively as there is little of value for > me to be found in the Fiji distribution as I don't work with biology. The > very slow load time and poor Windows compatibility of Fiji makes me avoid > it whenever possible. When I find useful plugins in Fiji, I usually try to > figure out the dependencies so that I can get them to work in ImageJ 1.x. > Yes, this can be a mess, but it works well for my workflow. > > I agree with Herbie's thread starting post here, in that when you visit > the new imagej.net pages, you get the impression that Fiji _is_ ImageJ; > the pages obscures the fact that Fiji should be considered a _fork_ of the > ImageJ project which has now evolved into something quite different. Fiji > is often incompatible with the "classic" ImageJ program since the new > plugins usually rely on a totally different code base on the bottom level. > There is nothing wrong with that, and Fiji in itself is very useful, but > the distinction between the two flavors should have been made more clear on > the wiki. When you visit https://imagej.net/downloads the only reference > to ImageJ 1.x is at the bottom, where there is a link to "old versions of > ImageJ 1.x " which should instead read "the original version of ImageJ". > Also, this link should have pointed to > https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download.html or https://wsr.imagej.net/distros/ > rather than https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download/ which is now outdated. > > When that is said, I see nothing wrong with the term ImageJ1. When this is > used in context, it makes it much more clear that we are thinking of the > "original" ImageJ version. The problem with the new wiki at imagej.net is > that it uses the term ImageJ instead of ImageJ2 in too many contexts. > > I also see nothing wrong in using the term "ImageJ" in a broader context > (including Fiji) when (and only when) you are referring to unrelated > programming frameworks or image analysis ecosystems such as Amira/Avizo or > MatLab. When someone says "I did the segmentation in ImageJ and analyzed > the objects in Avizo" I think this phrase would mean the same both when the > person used ImageJ 1.x or Fiji. > > Stein > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: 13. juni 2021 20:54 > Subject: Re: What does ImageJ stand for? > > Greetings, > > To be pedantic, there are no Linux distributions called "Linux" and > generally for those who don't know the difference between a kernel and a > distribution it would not help the resolution to their issue to know this. > > Since I only use ImageJ, i.e., ImageJ1, I get frustrated when searching > for new things or resolutions to problems to find out the hard / > embarrassing way that what I found was specifically for FIJI and not > ImageJ1. I find quite often, the FIJI documentation referred to itself as > ImageJ and not blatantly as FIJI. > > Fred > > > On Sun, June 13, 2021 9:41 am, Christophe Leterrier wrote: > > As I wrote, if thousands of developpers can understand what they talk > > about when they mention "Linux" I think we can manage to use "ImageJ" > > for several related things without any risk of damage > > > > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 15:48, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : > > > >> Thanks Christophe! > >> > >> "Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the > >> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been > >> public domain." > >> > >> -- First, ImageJ1 is not the name Wayne used for the software he > >> developed. > >> > >> -- Second and legal questions aside, isn't it simply a question of > >> fairness (especially in science) to not use the name of a renowned > >> piece of scientific software for a whole group of software that was > >> in great part > >> (MB) not written by its author? > >> > >> Apart from that and as I wrote before, it is generally not a good > >> idea to > >> (later) use a specific term (ImageJ as a single stand-alone software) > >> _also_ as a generic term (ImageJ as "software ecosystem" comprising > >> differently named stand-alone software products) in the same field. > >> > >> Best > >> > >> Herbie > >> > >> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > >> > >> lechristophe wrote > >> > Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about > >> > ImageJ trademarking in 2015 > >> > https://forum.image.sc/t/imagej-trademark-of-uw-madison/433 > >> > > >> > Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the > >> contest > >> > is > >> > here from the end of 2017: > >> > https://forum.image.sc/t/contest-new-imagej-logo/8485 > >> > > >> > there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the > >> > choice > >> of > >> > the current logo. > >> > > >> > Christophe > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < > >> > >> > christophe.leterrier@ > >> > >> >> a écrit : > >> > > >> >> Dear all, > >> >> > >> >> As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw > >> >> ImageJ branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji > >> >> (which I > >> have > >> >> used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda > >> >> morphed > >> into > >> >> an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes > >> >> corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" > >> >> such > >> as > >> >> ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. > >> >> > >> >> Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux > >> >> distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is > >> >> an interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or > >> >> something from the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by > >> >> the original > >> creator)? > >> >> > >> >> Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 > >> >> (the software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always > >> >> been > >> public > >> >> domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of > >> >> derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. > >> >> > >> >> Christophe > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie < > >> > >> > l16@ > >> > >> > > a écrit : > >> >> > >> >>> Dear listers, > >> >>> > >> >>> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list, > >> >>> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding > >> recent > >> >>> terminological changes. > >> >>> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the > >> >>> list yet, and because the further email-exchange happened > >> >>> off-list, I > >> should > >> >>> like to post my understanding of the situation. > >> >>> > >> >>> 1. > >> >>> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, > >> implemented > >> >>> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image > >> processing > >> >>> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. > >> >>> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) > >> >>> > >> >>> 2. > >> >>> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a > >> different > >> >>> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). > >> >>> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for > >> what > >> he > >> >>> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" > >> such > >> as > >> >>> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". > >> >>> > >> >>> ---------------------------------------- > >> >>> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a > >> specific > >> >>> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage > >> will > >> >>> puzzle not only me. > >> >>> > >> >>> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of > >> >>> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? > >> >>> ---------------------------------------- > >> >>> > >> >>> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is > >> >>> Wayne Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, > >> >>> should be > >> regarded > >> >>> as elements of ImageJ. > >> >>> > >> >>> All opinions welcome... > >> >>> > >> >>> Herbie > >> >>> :::::::::::::::::::: > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
Re: What does ImageJ stand for?
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Hi Curtis,
> On Jun 15, 2021, at 9:09 AM, Curtis Rueden <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > In response to this thread, I have done the following: > > * The front page (https://imagej.net/) now says "Welcome to the ImageJ > ecosystem" and shows a disambiguation box explaining about the two flavors > of ImageJ, ImageJ1 and ImageJ2, with links to more information. Thanks for making these changes. The new imagej.net front page is much better but I would prefer the two flavors to be ImageJ and ImageJ2. The Java version of NIH Image has been “ImageJ” for 24 years and I see no need to call it anything else. In any case, ImageJ 1.x is better than ImageJ1. There is no program named ImageJ1 but there is an ImageJ 1.53j (the current version). > * The downloads page (https://imagej.net/downloads) now clearly links to > the download pages of both Fiji and ImageJ1, with a sidebar explaining why > there is not yet a download for plain ImageJ2. This page is also much better but the download choices should be Fiji and ImageJ, or at least Fiji and ImageJ 1.x. > * On that same page, just below the download links, there is an expandable > box with the label "Need help deciding? Click here." that lists some bullet > points in favor of each system. As a software engineer, I dislike > marketing-style comparisons; my goal with this table was to sum up, for new > users, why you might want to use each tool. Contributions to these > respective bullet point lists are welcome, especially if you feel a major > strength of either ImageJ1 or ImageJ2 is missing from the table—please go > ahead and edit the wiki page directly. Here are four more ImageJ advantages: 1. It’s smaller, an 81 MB download versus 474 MB for Fiji. 2. It has a built in Java compiler. 3. There is a version that runs in Web browsers (https://ij.imjoy.io/). 4. There is a version that runs natively on m1 (arm64) Macs. I will try to edit the wiki page. > * I removed the "© ImageJ" from the imagej.net footer; it was left over > from the original theme. The license for the imagej.net website is CC BY > 3.0 (https://github.com/imagej/imagej.github.io/blob/main/LICENSE.txt). Thanks for removing the copyright notice. ImageJ is in the public domain, so it was inappropriate. > * I moved ImageJ2's top-level GitHub repository from > https://github.com/imagej/imagej to https://github.com/imagej/imagej2. This > hopefully helps clarify that imagej/imagej1 is the repository for ImageJ1, > and imagej/imagej2 is the repository for ImageJ2. We should not have any > repository at https://github.com/imagej/imagej because it would be > ambiguous. Relatedly, it would be nice to eliminate the imagej/ImageJA > repository, but I do not think it is technically feasible unless Wayne > changes the ImageJ1 release workflow. What are the workflow changes that would be needed to eliminate the ImageJA repository? -wayne > On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 11:42 AM Stein Rørvik <[hidden email]> > wrote: > >> I also use ImageJ 1.x almost exclusively as there is little of value for >> me to be found in the Fiji distribution as I don't work with biology. The >> very slow load time and poor Windows compatibility of Fiji makes me avoid >> it whenever possible. When I find useful plugins in Fiji, I usually try to >> figure out the dependencies so that I can get them to work in ImageJ 1.x. >> Yes, this can be a mess, but it works well for my workflow. >> >> I agree with Herbie's thread starting post here, in that when you visit >> the new imagej.net pages, you get the impression that Fiji _is_ ImageJ; >> the pages obscures the fact that Fiji should be considered a _fork_ of the >> ImageJ project which has now evolved into something quite different. Fiji >> is often incompatible with the "classic" ImageJ program since the new >> plugins usually rely on a totally different code base on the bottom level. >> There is nothing wrong with that, and Fiji in itself is very useful, but >> the distinction between the two flavors should have been made more clear on >> the wiki. When you visit https://imagej.net/downloads the only reference >> to ImageJ 1.x is at the bottom, where there is a link to "old versions of >> ImageJ 1.x " which should instead read "the original version of ImageJ". >> Also, this link should have pointed to >> https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download.html or https://wsr.imagej.net/distros/ >> rather than https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/download/ which is now outdated. >> >> When that is said, I see nothing wrong with the term ImageJ1. When this is >> used in context, it makes it much more clear that we are thinking of the >> "original" ImageJ version. The problem with the new wiki at imagej.net is >> that it uses the term ImageJ instead of ImageJ2 in too many contexts. >> >> I also see nothing wrong in using the term "ImageJ" in a broader context >> (including Fiji) when (and only when) you are referring to unrelated >> programming frameworks or image analysis ecosystems such as Amira/Avizo or >> MatLab. When someone says "I did the segmentation in ImageJ and analyzed >> the objects in Avizo" I think this phrase would mean the same both when the >> person used ImageJ 1.x or Fiji. >> >> Stein >> >> -----Original Message----- >> Sent: 13. juni 2021 20:54 >> Subject: Re: What does ImageJ stand for? >> >> Greetings, >> >> To be pedantic, there are no Linux distributions called "Linux" and >> generally for those who don't know the difference between a kernel and a >> distribution it would not help the resolution to their issue to know this. >> >> Since I only use ImageJ, i.e., ImageJ1, I get frustrated when searching >> for new things or resolutions to problems to find out the hard / >> embarrassing way that what I found was specifically for FIJI and not >> ImageJ1. I find quite often, the FIJI documentation referred to itself as >> ImageJ and not blatantly as FIJI. >> >> Fred >> >> >> On Sun, June 13, 2021 9:41 am, Christophe Leterrier wrote: >>> As I wrote, if thousands of developpers can understand what they talk >>> about when they mention "Linux" I think we can manage to use "ImageJ" >>> for several related things without any risk of damage >>> >>> Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 15:48, Herbie <[hidden email]> a écrit : >>> >>>> Thanks Christophe! >>>> >>>> "Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 (the >>>> software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always been >>>> public domain." >>>> >>>> -- First, ImageJ1 is not the name Wayne used for the software he >>>> developed. >>>> >>>> -- Second and legal questions aside, isn't it simply a question of >>>> fairness (especially in science) to not use the name of a renowned >>>> piece of scientific software for a whole group of software that was >>>> in great part >>>> (MB) not written by its author? >>>> >>>> Apart from that and as I wrote before, it is generally not a good >>>> idea to >>>> (later) use a specific term (ImageJ as a single stand-alone software) >>>> _also_ as a generic term (ImageJ as "software ecosystem" comprising >>>> differently named stand-alone software products) in the same field. >>>> >>>> Best >>>> >>>> Herbie >>>> >>>> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >>>> >>>> lechristophe wrote >>>>> Some elements here from a question you aksed in Image.sc about >>>>> ImageJ trademarking in 2015 >>>>> https://forum.image.sc/t/imagej-trademark-of-uw-madison/433 >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the logo, the original thread about a new logo and the >>>> contest >>>>> is >>>>> here from the end of 2017: >>>>> https://forum.image.sc/t/contest-new-imagej-logo/8485 >>>>> >>>>> there's another thread with the voting process that lead to the >>>>> choice >>>> of >>>>> the current logo. >>>>> >>>>> Christophe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le dim. 13 juin 2021 à 10:39, Christophe Leterrier < >>>> >>>>> christophe.leterrier@ >>>> >>>>>> a écrit : >>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> As a long-time user of ImageJ (I'd say since 2004-ish), I saw >>>>>> ImageJ branching out several times with initiatives such as Fiji >>>>>> (which I >>>> have >>>>>> used for a decade), ImageJ2 (which in my understanding kinda >>>>>> morphed >>>> into >>>>>> an alternative, unfininished back-end within ImageJ1), sometimes >>>>>> corresponding to funding efforts. I know about other "branches" >>>>>> such >>>> as >>>>>> ImageJFX but I don't know them well and they seem less developed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding Fiji, I have read some make the parallel with a Linux >>>>>> distribution, Fiji being an ImageJ "distribution". I think this is >>>>>> an interesting analogy as "Linux" today can mean the kernel or >>>>>> something from the whole ecosystem (whether or not sanctionned by >>>>>> the original >>>> creator)? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding ownership of the ImageJ name, to my knowledge ImageJ1 >>>>>> (the software created and developed by Wayne) is and has always >>>>>> been >>>> public >>>>>> domain. I don't know enough about licenses to be sure what kind of >>>>>> derivative it allows, but in my understanding it is quite flexible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Christophe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le sam. 12 juin 2021 à 13:03, Herbie < >>>> >>>>> l16@ >>>> >>>>> > a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear listers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in the sequel to my previous question posted to this list, >>>>>>> Kevin Eliceiri immediately provided some information regarding >>>> recent >>>>>>> terminological changes. >>>>>>> Because his reply to my original question didn't make it to the >>>>>>> list yet, and because the further email-exchange happened >>>>>>> off-list, I >>>> should >>>>>>> like to post my understanding of the situation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. >>>>>>> A longstanding fact is that Wayne Rasband conceptualized, >>>> implemented >>>>>>> and continuously extends and maintains the scientific image >>>> processing >>>>>>> software that he named "ImageJ" nearly 25 years ago. >>>>>>> (I can't remember that he ever termed it differently.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. >>>>>>> Only recently however, "ImageJ" appears being used in either a >>>> different >>>>>>> or a much wider sense (see the attachments to my previous post). >>>>>>> From Kevin Eliceiri I now learned that here "ImageJ" stands for >>>> what >>>> he >>>>>>> calls the "ImageJ ecosystem" that includes all "ImageJ elements" >>>> such >>>> as >>>>>>> "IJ1, IJ2 and FIJI". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>> I feel that it is not a good idea to use "ImageJ" as both, a >>>> specific >>>>>>> _as well as_ a generic term, and I'm pretty sure that such usage >>>> will >>>>>>> puzzle not only me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Did Wayne Rasband agree with the "extended" meaning and usage of >>>>>>> "ImageJ", the name he gave to the software that he developed? >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apart from that, I'm surprised that IJ1 (that I understand is >>>>>>> Wayne Rasband's ImageJ) or Fiji, both stand-alone software, >>>>>>> should be >>>> regarded >>>>>>> as elements of ImageJ. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All opinions welcome... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Herbie >>>>>>> :::::::::::::::::::: -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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