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Re: thresholding and detection issues when analyzing particles to obtain object counts in a petri dish

Posted by Aryeh Weiss on Dec 09, 2015; 2:31pm
URL: http://imagej.273.s1.nabble.com/thresholding-and-detection-issues-when-analyzing-particles-to-obtain-object-counts-in-a-petri-dish-tp5015178p5015185.html

On 09/12/2015 3:39 PM, Rich Pendleton wrote:
> Thank you Ben and Aryeh.  At this point, total egg counts is the main
> objective, but eventually we would like to use the area and perimeter
> information from analyze particles to estimate egg size.  Do you have
> any additional information that could lead to me still utilizing the
> analyze particles function?
>

The find maxima command has a segmentation option that segments your
image into regions, each (hopefully) with a single object.
Also, after doing background subtraction, you might try  hysteresis
segmentation.
You can find this in the  3D ImageJ Suite
http://imagejdocu.tudor.lu/doku.php?id=plugin:stacks:3d_ij_suite:start
They have a Fiji update site.
This allows you to set a low enough threshold that you can include the
entire egg, but only if the object includes a peak higher than the upper
threshold.

I think you will really need higher resolution. I do not know what
constraints you have, but there are scanners
with 6400 DPI optical resolution and even higher, so that you can get
more than a few pixels across the eggs.

Best regards
--aryeh

> Thanks again,
>
> Rich
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Aryeh Weiss <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     On 08/12/2015 10:57 PM, Rich Pendleton wrote:
>
>         Hey all,
>
>
>
>         I was wondering if someone might be able to provide some
>         insight similar to
>         a question that was posted last month.  I am trying to use the
>         analyze
>         particles function to count fish eggs in a petri dish.  Some
>         eggs are more
>         mature than others and the smaller less mature eggs are rather
>         transparent.  Therefore when trying to adjust the threshold to
>         detect the
>         less mature eggs, I get clumping of mature eggs that are in
>         close proximity
>         to one another.  Despite using the watershed function in
>         attempt to
>         separate eggs that are close, I still have many large clumps
>         that have
>         numerous eggs that are being counted as one unit. As a result,
>         the counts
>         are always much less than the true count (often over 1000 eggs
>         less). If I
>         adjust the threshold in the other direction, I am unable to
>         detect the less
>         mature eggs.  It is quite difficult to prevent eggs from
>         clumping when the
>         petri dish is first scanned therefore was hoping I might be
>         able to get
>         around it within ImageJ. I have attached a few pictures (from
>         top to
>         bottom) 1) original image set to 8 bit, 2) after thresholding,
>         3) after
>         watershed, 4) outlines of counted particles.  The original
>         image was
>         scanned in as a jpeg with 1200 dpi.  Any help that you may be
>         able to
>         provide would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>     Try Process>Find Maxima..
>     For your image, a threshold of about 15 seems to work.
>     Process>Subtract Background may also help if you want to
>     threshold, but I dont think Find Maxima needs it.
>
>     However, I suggest that you not acquire your images as jpg -- use
>     a format that is not lossy ( or acquire uncompressed).
>     You resolution is currently about 20 micron/dot (1200 dots in 25.4
>     mm).  You might do better if you can get a higher resolution scan.
>
>     --aryeh
>
>     --
>     Aryeh Weiss
>     Faculty of Engineering
>     Bar Ilan University
>     Ramat Gan 52900 Israel
>
>     Ph:  972-3-5317638
>     FAX: 972-3-7384051
>
>


--
Aryeh Weiss
Faculty of Engineering
Bar Ilan University
Ramat Gan 52900 Israel

Ph:  972-3-5317638
FAX: 972-3-7384051


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