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Re: validation for Helsinki committee

Posted by Aryeh Weiss on Dec 24, 2015; 7:37pm
URL: http://imagej.273.s1.nabble.com/validation-for-Helsinki-committee-tp5015279p5015287.html

Hi Albert and Kenneth,

Thanks for your replies.

On 24/12/2015 6:27 PM, Albert Cardona wrote:

> Aryeh,
>
> I'd argue that Fiji, being under version control, and java also being
> under version control, enables the researcher to fix the application
> at a specific version and, with tests designed for that version,
> forever produce the same results. And, by virtue of being open source,
> assert this reproducibility in the strongest terms possible by being
> able to analyze the source code implementing the relevant
> computations, even checksum it to guarantee identity and lack of
> tinkering over time.
>

I will pass this on, although the people asking about this probably dont
know anything  about version control.

> The push to reproducible builts by ImageJ2 developers goes into
> facilitating this even further. It's all part of the general movement
> of reproducible science.
>
> Best,
>
> Albert
>
> 2015-12-24 10:41 GMT-05:00 Kenneth Sloan <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>     Ah - so…this is local Institutional Review Board.  The papers in
>     the literature are probably asserting that the research conformed
>     to the Declaration of Helsinki - that’s different.
>
>     IRB’s ask all sorts of questions, some justified and some not.  If
>     the calculations done by FIJI affect patient (or human subject)
>     care, they it’s a legitimate question.  If not, not (in my
>     opinion).  One might as well ask if the Java compiler is validated.
>
>     Usually these sorts of questions creep in because some commercial
>     package *has* been “validated” and there is pressure applied to
>     insist that everyone in the institution use the same package.
>     Usually, it’s not legitimate - but that doesn’t mean that it can
>     be ignored.
>     Usually, you have to write a few sentences in response, and good
>     judgement prevails.
>
>     Usually…
>

I am reasonably sure that this is not directly connected to patient
care. It is basic research.
One of the papers that used ImageJ was written by a group who are at the
same med school as my son, so I hope that will do the job.

The main question is whether they will insist on something formal.

--aryeh

>
>     --
>     Kenneth Sloan
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others.
>
>
>
>
>     > On Dec 24, 2015, at 09:01 , Aryeh Weiss <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     >
>     > On 24/12/2015 3:20 PM, Kenneth Sloan wrote:
>     >> Are you talking about the local Israeli IRB (“Helsinki
>     Committee”), or the “Declaration of Helsinki”?
>     > I believe that it is the IRB of the Shiba Medical Center.
>     >
>     > --aryeh
>     >
>     >> I think they are connected, but they are not the same.
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> Kenneth Sloan
>     >> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     >> Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>> On Dec 24, 2015, at 02:46 , Aryeh Weiss <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>> A Helsinki committee has asked whether FIji/ImageJ have
>     "validation".
>     >>> This issue was raised a some years ago in this thread:
>     >>>
>     https://list.nih.gov/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0802&L=IMAGEJ&P=R10971&1=IMAGEJ&9=A&I=-3&J=on&d=No+Match%3BMatch%3BMatches&z=4
>     >>>
>     >>> I see that ImageJ is used in many publications which contain
>     statements of compliance with  Helsinki committee guidelines.
>     >>> My question is,   has anyone on the list received such a
>     request , and if so, how did you respond?
>     >>>
>     >>> Thanks in advance
>     >>> --aryeh
>     >>>
>     >>> --
>     >>> Aryeh Weiss
>     >>> Faculty of Engineering
>     >>> Bar Ilan University
>     >>> Ramat Gan 52900 Israel
>     >>>
>     >>> Ph:  972-3-5317638
>     >>> FAX: 972-3-7384051
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> --
>     >>> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html
>     >> --
>     >> ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html
>     >>
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Aryeh Weiss
>     > Faculty of Engineering
>     > Bar Ilan University
>     > Ramat Gan 52900 Israel
>     >
>     > Ph:  972-3-5317638
>     > FAX: 972-3-7384051
>     >
>     > --
>     > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html
>
>     --
>     ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://albert.rierol.net
> http://www.janelia.org/lab/cardona-lab
> http://www.ini.uzh.ch/~acardona/ <http://www.ini.uzh.ch/%7Eacardona/>


--
Aryeh Weiss
Faculty of Engineering
Bar Ilan University
Ramat Gan 52900 Israel

Ph:  972-3-5317638
FAX: 972-3-7384051


--
ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html