Re: ? of compatability of camera with ImageJ software

[Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.]

Dear Members:

This is a follow-up to the valuable input provided by G. Landini.
I have spoken with Qimaging Corporation regarding the
following monochrome CCD cameras. My understanding is
that the QICAM cameras are ImageJ compatible.
Does the improved camera image
as a result of cooling warrant an additional $1,000 USD expense?

QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394
Model: QIC-F-M-12
1392 x 1040 pixels
12 bit
Binning up to 8 x 8
$4,490 USD pretax; $2,287.31 GBP

and

QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394 Cooled
Model: QIC-F-M-12-C
1392 x 1040 pixels
12 bit
Binning up to 8 x 8
$5,490 USD pretax; $2,796.73 GBP

I intend to measure the perimeters and areas of red blood cells in dark
field photomicrosocopy.
I intend to visualize aberrations of the red blood cell membrane
morphology ((blebs and spicules) using phase contrast microscopy.
QIMAGE Corp recommended dark field microscopy for optimal
imaging regarding red blood cell membrane edge detection.
QIMAGE Corp recommended a monochrome CCD camera for improved
image resolution versus color.
 
Cordially,

 

Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.

Medical Director

Medical Biomechanics Inc.

100 E. San Marcos Blvd., Suite 400

San Marcos, CA 92069

Tel.: [phone]

Fax: [phone]

Email: [hidden email]

[Gabriel Landini]

On Sunday 31 December 2006 02:37, Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D. wrote:
> This is a follow-up to the valuable input provided by G. Landini.
> I have spoken with Qimaging Corporation regarding the
> following monochrome CCD cameras. My understanding is
> that the QICAM cameras are ImageJ compatible.
> Does the improved camera image
> as a result of cooling warrant an additional $1,000 USD expense?

Only you can answer that.
Ask for a demonstration (they did it for me), so you can test how well image
quality is when combined with your microscope optics, you an also test how
much you need the cooling option, and you can compare monochrome vs colour.
Also think what sort of detail size you want to capture, and what sort of
detail does the microscope and camera *allow* you to capture (what is the
resolution of your objectives and the camera, etc).

As I understand, cooling is needed when you need long exposure times due to
low light conditions.

Magnification? You want to analyse 1 cell per field or as many as you can? In
the 2nd case, how bad/good is the shperical aberration of the microscope?

> QIMAGE Corp recommended dark field microscopy for optimal
> imaging regarding red blood cell membrane edge detection.

Is this advice because they have been setting up a similar system for the
analysis you want to do or just a generic recommendation?

I would first find out what procedures I need to apply to the images and then
try them in my setup during their demonstation (if you can manage to get a
demo from them). You will them have a chance to see whether their ImageJ
plugin lets you do what you want.

I hope it helps.

Happy new year,

Gabriel

[Jacqueline Ross]

Dear Jeffrey,

Monochrome cameras are more sensitive and have more dynamic range than
colour. If you have the additional dollars available, then I would go
for the cooled monochrome option.

The cooling decreases noise which is important if you are doing
fluorescence or dark field imaging, where light levels are much less
than in brightfield/transmitted light imaging and where higher gain or
longer exposure times are required.

I think darkfield images will be easier to segment for analysis than
phase contrast ones and a better quality image with less background
noise means less processing time required.

However, if possible, you should trial the two cameras that you are
considering on your optical platform as Gabriel suggested.

Cheers,

Jacqui.

Jacqueline Ross
Biomedical Imaging Research Unit
School of Medical Sciences
Faculty of Medical & Health Sciences
The University of Auckland
Private Bag 92019
Auckland, NEW ZEALAND

Tel: [phone] Ext 87438
Fax: [phone]

http://www.health.auckland.ac.nz/biru/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.
Sent: 31 December 2006 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: ? of compatability of camera with ImageJ software

Dear Members:

This is a follow-up to the valuable input provided by G. Landini.
I have spoken with Qimaging Corporation regarding the
following monochrome CCD cameras. My understanding is
that the QICAM cameras are ImageJ compatible.
Does the improved camera image
as a result of cooling warrant an additional $1,000 USD expense?

QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394
Model: QIC-F-M-12
1392 x 1040 pixels
12 bit
Binning up to 8 x 8
$4,490 USD pretax; $2,287.31 GBP

and

QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394 Cooled
Model: QIC-F-M-12-C
1392 x 1040 pixels
12 bit
Binning up to 8 x 8
$5,490 USD pretax; $2,796.73 GBP

I intend to measure the perimeters and areas of red blood cells in dark
field photomicrosocopy.
I intend to visualize aberrations of the red blood cell membrane
morphology ((blebs and spicules) using phase contrast microscopy.
QIMAGE Corp recommended dark field microscopy for optimal
imaging regarding red blood cell membrane edge detection.
QIMAGE Corp recommended a monochrome CCD camera for improved
image resolution versus color.
 
Cordially,

 

Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.

Medical Director

Medical Biomechanics Inc.

100 E. San Marcos Blvd., Suite 400

San Marcos, CA 92069

Tel.: [phone]

Fax: [phone]

Email: [hidden email]

[Frederic V. Hessman]

Coming from astronomy - where all cameras are monochrome and cooling  
is an absolute necessity for long exposures - I'm not familiar with  
the cameras used in microscopy, but most CCD color cameras are just  
monochrome cameras where each pixel has been outfitted with a filter  
(in groups of 4: 2xgreen, 1xblue, 1xred).  This means monochrome  
cameras are more sensitive only in the sense that they use "white  
light" (if no filter is used).  Dynamic range is just a question of  
cost and not monochrome vs color : do you want to pay for 16 bits or  
not.

Rick

On 2 Jan 2007, at 10:43 pm, Jacqui Ross wrote:

> Dear Jeffrey,
>
> Monochrome cameras are more sensitive and have more dynamic range than
> colour. If you have the additional dollars available, then I would go
> for the cooled monochrome option.
>
> The cooling decreases noise which is important if you are doing
> fluorescence or dark field imaging, where light levels are much less
> than in brightfield/transmitted light imaging and where higher gain or
> longer exposure times are required.
>
> I think darkfield images will be easier to segment for analysis than
> phase contrast ones and a better quality image with less background
> noise means less processing time required.
>
> However, if possible, you should trial the two cameras that you are
> considering on your optical platform as Gabriel suggested.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jacqui.
>
> Jacqueline Ross
> Biomedical Imaging Research Unit
> School of Medical Sciences
> Faculty of Medical & Health Sciences
> The University of Auckland
> Private Bag 92019
> Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
>
> Tel: [phone] Ext 87438
> Fax: [phone]
>
> http://www.health.auckland.ac.nz/biru/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.
> Sent: 31 December 2006 15:38
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: ? of compatability of camera with ImageJ software
>
> Dear Members:
>
> This is a follow-up to the valuable input provided by G. Landini.
> I have spoken with Qimaging Corporation regarding the
> following monochrome CCD cameras. My understanding is
> that the QICAM cameras are ImageJ compatible.
> Does the improved camera image
> as a result of cooling warrant an additional $1,000 USD expense?
>
> QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394
> Model: QIC-F-M-12
> 1392 x 1040 pixels
> 12 bit
> Binning up to 8 x 8
> $4,490 USD pretax; $2,287.31 GBP
>
> and
>
> QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394 Cooled
> Model: QIC-F-M-12-C
> 1392 x 1040 pixels
> 12 bit
> Binning up to 8 x 8
> $5,490 USD pretax; $2,796.73 GBP
>
> I intend to measure the perimeters and areas of red blood cells in  
> dark
> field photomicrosocopy.
> I intend to visualize aberrations of the red blood cell membrane
> morphology ((blebs and spicules) using phase contrast microscopy.
> QIMAGE Corp recommended dark field microscopy for optimal
> imaging regarding red blood cell membrane edge detection.
> QIMAGE Corp recommended a monochrome CCD camera for improved
> image resolution versus color.
>
> Cordially,
>
>
>
> Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.
>
> Medical Director
>
> Medical Biomechanics Inc.
>
> 100 E. San Marcos Blvd., Suite 400
>
> San Marcos, CA 92069
>
> Tel.: [phone]
>
> Fax: [phone]
>
> Email: [hidden email]

[Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.]

Thank you for the useful input from Drs. Hessman and Ross in guiding our
equipment purchases.

Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.

Medical Director

Medical Biomechanics Inc.

100 E. San Marcos Blvd., Suite 400

San Marcos, CA 92069

Tel.: [phone]

Fax: [phone]



----- Original Message -----
From: "Hessman Frederic" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: ? of compatability of camera with ImageJ software

> Coming from astronomy - where all cameras are monochrome and cooling  is
> an absolute necessity for long exposures - I'm not familiar with  the
> cameras used in microscopy, but most CCD color cameras are just
> monochrome cameras where each pixel has been outfitted with a filter  (in
> groups of 4: 2xgreen, 1xblue, 1xred).  This means monochrome  cameras are
> more sensitive only in the sense that they use "white  light" (if no
> filter is used).  Dynamic range is just a question of  cost and not
> monochrome vs color : do you want to pay for 16 bits or  not.
>
> Rick
>
> On 2 Jan 2007, at 10:43 pm, Jacqui Ross wrote:
>
>> Dear Jeffrey,
>>
>> Monochrome cameras are more sensitive and have more dynamic range than
>> colour. If you have the additional dollars available, then I would go
>> for the cooled monochrome option.
>>
>> The cooling decreases noise which is important if you are doing
>> fluorescence or dark field imaging, where light levels are much less
>> than in brightfield/transmitted light imaging and where higher gain or
>> longer exposure times are required.
>>
>> I think darkfield images will be easier to segment for analysis than
>> phase contrast ones and a better quality image with less background
>> noise means less processing time required.
>>
>> However, if possible, you should trial the two cameras that you are
>> considering on your optical platform as Gabriel suggested.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jacqui.
>>
>> Jacqueline Ross
>> Biomedical Imaging Research Unit
>> School of Medical Sciences
>> Faculty of Medical & Health Sciences
>> The University of Auckland
>> Private Bag 92019
>> Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
>>
>> Tel: [phone] Ext 87438
>> Fax: [phone]
>>
>> http://www.health.auckland.ac.nz/biru/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.
>> Sent: 31 December 2006 15:38
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: ? of compatability of camera with ImageJ software
>>
>> Dear Members:
>>
>> This is a follow-up to the valuable input provided by G. Landini.
>> I have spoken with Qimaging Corporation regarding the
>> following monochrome CCD cameras. My understanding is
>> that the QICAM cameras are ImageJ compatible.
>> Does the improved camera image
>> as a result of cooling warrant an additional $1,000 USD expense?
>>
>> QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394
>> Model: QIC-F-M-12
>> 1392 x 1040 pixels
>> 12 bit
>> Binning up to 8 x 8
>> $4,490 USD pretax; $2,287.31 GBP
>>
>> and
>>
>> QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394 Cooled
>> Model: QIC-F-M-12-C
>> 1392 x 1040 pixels
>> 12 bit
>> Binning up to 8 x 8
>> $5,490 USD pretax; $2,796.73 GBP
>>
>> I intend to measure the perimeters and areas of red blood cells in  dark
>> field photomicrosocopy.
>> I intend to visualize aberrations of the red blood cell membrane
>> morphology ((blebs and spicules) using phase contrast microscopy.
>> QIMAGE Corp recommended dark field microscopy for optimal
>> imaging regarding red blood cell membrane edge detection.
>> QIMAGE Corp recommended a monochrome CCD camera for improved
>> image resolution versus color.
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.
>>
>> Medical Director
>>
>> Medical Biomechanics Inc.
>>
>> 100 E. San Marcos Blvd., Suite 400
>>
>> San Marcos, CA 92069
>>
>> Tel.: [phone]
>>
>> Fax: [phone]
>>
>> Email: [hidden email]
>
>

[Frederic V. Hessman]

Last note:  be aware that color cameras do not have the same  
resolution:  the color info of each 4-pixel filter group is used to  
interpolate the results.  With monochrome cameras, you get the full  
pixel resolution but have to decide if you want to use a filter or  
not.  Thus, a "4-megapixel" color camera has as many real pixels as a  
1 megapixel monochrome.  The minor up-side of color is that the two  
green pixels which make up the effective color pixel fraction have  
twice the signal of a single green-filtered monochrome pixel, so that  
the green signal-to-noise appears to be better, both because of the  
smoothing effects of interpolation and because twice the signal went in.

Rick

On 3 Jan 2007, at 6:19 pm, Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D. wrote:

> Thank you for the useful input from Drs. Hessman and Ross in  
> guiding our equipment purchases.
>
> Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.
>
> Medical Director
>
> Medical Biomechanics Inc.
>
> 100 E. San Marcos Blvd., Suite 400
>
> San Marcos, CA 92069
>
> Tel.: [phone]
>
> Fax: [phone]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hessman Frederic"  
> <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 1:25 AM
> Subject: Re: ? of compatability of camera with ImageJ software
>
>
>> Coming from astronomy - where all cameras are monochrome and  
>> cooling  is an absolute necessity for long exposures - I'm not  
>> familiar with  the cameras used in microscopy, but most CCD color  
>> cameras are just monochrome cameras where each pixel has been  
>> outfitted with a filter  (in groups of 4: 2xgreen, 1xblue,  
>> 1xred).  This means monochrome  cameras are more sensitive only in  
>> the sense that they use "white  light" (if no filter is used).  
>> Dynamic range is just a question of  cost and not monochrome vs  
>> color : do you want to pay for 16 bits or  not.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On 2 Jan 2007, at 10:43 pm, Jacqui Ross wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Jeffrey,
>>>
>>> Monochrome cameras are more sensitive and have more dynamic range  
>>> than
>>> colour. If you have the additional dollars available, then I  
>>> would go
>>> for the cooled monochrome option.
>>>
>>> The cooling decreases noise which is important if you are doing
>>> fluorescence or dark field imaging, where light levels are much less
>>> than in brightfield/transmitted light imaging and where higher  
>>> gain or
>>> longer exposure times are required.
>>>
>>> I think darkfield images will be easier to segment for analysis than
>>> phase contrast ones and a better quality image with less background
>>> noise means less processing time required.
>>>
>>> However, if possible, you should trial the two cameras that you are
>>> considering on your optical platform as Gabriel suggested.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jacqui.
>>>
>>> Jacqueline Ross
>>> Biomedical Imaging Research Unit
>>> School of Medical Sciences
>>> Faculty of Medical & Health Sciences
>>> The University of Auckland
>>> Private Bag 92019
>>> Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
>>>
>>> Tel: [phone] Ext 87438
>>> Fax: [phone]
>>>
>>> http://www.health.auckland.ac.nz/biru/
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ImageJ Interest Group [mailto:[hidden email]] On  
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.
>>> Sent: 31 December 2006 15:38
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: ? of compatability of camera with ImageJ software
>>>
>>> Dear Members:
>>>
>>> This is a follow-up to the valuable input provided by G. Landini.
>>> I have spoken with Qimaging Corporation regarding the
>>> following monochrome CCD cameras. My understanding is
>>> that the QICAM cameras are ImageJ compatible.
>>> Does the improved camera image
>>> as a result of cooling warrant an additional $1,000 USD expense?
>>>
>>> QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394
>>> Model: QIC-F-M-12
>>> 1392 x 1040 pixels
>>> 12 bit
>>> Binning up to 8 x 8
>>> $4,490 USD pretax; $2,287.31 GBP
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> QICAM 12-bit Mono Fast 1394 Cooled
>>> Model: QIC-F-M-12-C
>>> 1392 x 1040 pixels
>>> 12 bit
>>> Binning up to 8 x 8
>>> $5,490 USD pretax; $2,796.73 GBP
>>>
>>> I intend to measure the perimeters and areas of red blood cells  
>>> in  dark
>>> field photomicrosocopy.
>>> I intend to visualize aberrations of the red blood cell membrane
>>> morphology ((blebs and spicules) using phase contrast microscopy.
>>> QIMAGE Corp recommended dark field microscopy for optimal
>>> imaging regarding red blood cell membrane edge detection.
>>> QIMAGE Corp recommended a monochrome CCD camera for improved
>>> image resolution versus color.
>>>
>>> Cordially,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeffrey S. Putter, M.D.
>>>
>>> Medical Director
>>>
>>> Medical Biomechanics Inc.
>>>
>>> 100 E. San Marcos Blvd., Suite 400
>>>
>>> San Marcos, CA 92069
>>>
>>> Tel.: [phone]
>>>
>>> Fax: [phone]
>>>
>>> Email: [hidden email]
>>