Two stupid questions
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Dear all,
Given that an overlay can be thought as an invisible ROI Manager, how come the selection features is within the Edit menu as the Overlay features is within the Image one? Wouldn't it be more logical to have the Selection features as well within the Image menu and actually followed by the Overlay features? And in order to make things even clearer insert a separator before and after them? Also within the Edit>Selection>Elarge... dialog there is a checkBox giving the possibility to define the transformation within Pixel_units in the case the picture has some defined dimensions. But in the case I'm setting the Pixel_units checkBox to true, I would expect the parameter unit to be dynamically transformed from "microns" (in my case) into "pixels" as well as the value within the numericField to be transformed accordingly to the calibration parameters. But none of these updates are performed and the dialog remains "static". My best regards, Philippe Philippe CARL Laboratoire de Bioimagerie et Pathologies UMR 7021 CNRS - Université de Strasbourg Faculté de Pharmacie 74 route du Rhin 67401 ILLKIRCH Tel : +33(0)3 68 85 42 89 -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Dear Philippe,
although there are some variations of formal logic around, everyday logic is individual and isn't universal. What belongs where and why is not well-defined and we should simply leave everything as is, as long as things are functional. (In fact there are many more things that I would love to see changed but they work and I don't claim that my logic is the correct and only one.) Best Herbie ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Sent from: http://imagej.1557.x6.nabble.com/ -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Dear Herbie,
Given that ImageJ community gives a lot of weight to "stability of versions through time" I agree completely that my first question / thought should rather be ignored given all the people being used how the interface looks like now. But for the enlarge dialog content being updated upon change within the Pixel_units checkBox, I don't see arguments which would go against a "slight update". My best regards, Philippe ----- Mail original ----- De: "l16" <[hidden email]> À: "imagej" <[hidden email]> Envoyé: Jeudi 1 Avril 2021 15:33:01 Objet: Re: Two stupid questions Dear Philippe, although there are some variations of formal logic around, everyday logic is individual and isn't universal. What belongs where and why is not well-defined and we should simply leave everything as is, as long as things are functional. (In fact there are many more things that I would love to see changed but they work and I don't claim that my logic is the correct and only one.) Best Herbie ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Sent from: http://imagej.1557.x6.nabble.com/ -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by CARL Philippe (LBP)
We can describe at length how this came to be (history). We can also argue where they should be. These may be interesting arguments and could be great for informing future features.
However, after twenty years of working great where they are, DO NOT CHANGE WHERE THEY ARE. Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY 10016 Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270 [hidden email] http://nyulmc.org/micros http://microscopynotes.com/ -----Original Message----- From: CARL Philippe (LBP) <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 9:15 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Two stupid questions [EXTERNAL] Dear all, Given that an overlay can be thought as an invisible ROI Manager, how come the selection features is within the Edit menu as the Overlay features is within the Image one? Wouldn't it be more logical to have the Selection features as well within the Image menu and actually followed by the Overlay features? And in order to make things even clearer insert a separator before and after them? Also within the Edit>Selection>Elarge... dialog there is a checkBox giving the possibility to define the transformation within Pixel_units in the case the picture has some defined dimensions. But in the case I'm setting the Pixel_units checkBox to true, I would expect the parameter unit to be dynamically transformed from "microns" (in my case) into "pixels" as well as the value within the numericField to be transformed accordingly to the calibration parameters. But none of these updates are performed and the dialog remains "static". My best regards, Philippe Philippe CARL Laboratoire de Bioimagerie et Pathologies UMR 7021 CNRS - Université de Strasbourg Faculté de Pharmacie 74 route du Rhin 67401 ILLKIRCH Tel : +33(0)3 68 85 42 89 -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html ------------------------------------------------------------ This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ================================= -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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Dear Michael,
I guess you figured out why I entitled the questions as being "stupid"! Nevertheless it seems everybody got stuck by my first question. I should rather have inversed them, sorry my mistake! Take care, Philippe ----- Mail original ----- De: "Cammer, Michael" <[hidden email]> À: "imagej" <[hidden email]> Envoyé: Jeudi 1 Avril 2021 15:53:00 Objet: Re: Two stupid questions We can describe at length how this came to be (history). We can also argue where they should be. These may be interesting arguments and could be great for informing future features. However, after twenty years of working great where they are, DO NOT CHANGE WHERE THEY ARE. Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY 10016 Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270 [hidden email] http://nyulmc.org/micros http://microscopynotes.com/ -----Original Message----- From: CARL Philippe (LBP) <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 9:15 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Two stupid questions [EXTERNAL] Dear all, Given that an overlay can be thought as an invisible ROI Manager, how come the selection features is within the Edit menu as the Overlay features is within the Image one? Wouldn't it be more logical to have the Selection features as well within the Image menu and actually followed by the Overlay features? And in order to make things even clearer insert a separator before and after them? Also within the Edit>Selection>Elarge... dialog there is a checkBox giving the possibility to define the transformation within Pixel_units in the case the picture has some defined dimensions. But in the case I'm setting the Pixel_units checkBox to true, I would expect the parameter unit to be dynamically transformed from "microns" (in my case) into "pixels" as well as the value within the numericField to be transformed accordingly to the calibration parameters. But none of these updates are performed and the dialog remains "static". My best regards, Philippe Philippe CARL Laboratoire de Bioimagerie et Pathologies UMR 7021 CNRS - Université de Strasbourg Faculté de Pharmacie 74 route du Rhin 67401 ILLKIRCH Tel : +33(0)3 68 85 42 89 -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html ------------------------------------------------------------ This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is proprietary, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by return email and delete the original message. Please note, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The organization accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ================================= -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by CARL Philippe (LBP)
Hi Philippe,
here are my 3 cents: Selections are used for editing an image (also for measurements, and more). Also, "Select All" is usually in the Edit menu. Overlays are for display, not for editing an image. So there is some justification for having these in different menus. Making "Selection" an own menu, not a submenu of Edit is on my own secret wish list for quite long. These are commands that I use rather often. Also Photoshop & Gimp have a selection menu. Considering that we have more icons in the toolbar than in the early days of ImageJ, there would space for an additional menu, and it would not break compatibility (macros and IJ.run don't care about in which menu a command is displayed). Just that the documentation would need updating. (Updating the ImageJ documentation would be needed anyhow - a pity that Tiago Ferreira did not keep his super-nice documentation up to date, and no one else did. The other documentation pages like https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/docs/menus/ and https://imagejdocu.tudor.lu/gui/start are even older) -- Edit>Selection>Enlarge... I guess that the rather basic behavior is simply for historic reasons, no one has found time or cared to improve it. It would be also nice to have ImageJ remember the state of the 'Pixel units' checkbox. But I guess that Wayne would be open for improved code with a DialogListener, to automatically transform the values (such as Edit>Selection>Specify does it). One further problem is that it does not care about the pixel aspect ratio, when 'Pixel units' is off. This could be implemented without too much effort for rectangular or oval selections, but not for other selections (there it is based on the Euclidian distance map of the mask, and the ImageJ EDM has no provisions for different x&y scale). Michael ________________________________________________________________ On 01.04.21 15:14, CARL Philippe (LBP) wrote: > Dear all, > Given that an overlay can be thought as an invisible ROI Manager, how come the selection features is within the Edit menu as the Overlay features is within the Image one? > Wouldn't it be more logical to have the Selection features as well within the Image menu and actually followed by the Overlay features? And in order to make things even clearer insert a separator before and after them? > Also within the Edit>Selection>Elarge... dialog there is a checkBox giving the possibility to define the transformation within Pixel_units in the case the picture has some defined dimensions. > But in the case I'm setting the Pixel_units checkBox to true, I would expect the parameter unit to be dynamically transformed from "microns" (in my case) into "pixels" as well as the value within the numericField to be transformed accordingly to the calibration parameters. But none of these updates are performed and the dialog remains "static". > My best regards, > Philippe > > Philippe CARL > Laboratoire de Bioimagerie et Pathologies > UMR 7021 CNRS - Université de Strasbourg > Faculté de Pharmacie > 74 route du Rhin > 67401 ILLKIRCH > Tel : +33(0)3 68 85 42 89 > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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On Thursday, 1 April 2021 18:20:11 BST [hidden email] wrote:
> Just that the documentation would need updating. > (Updating the ImageJ documentation would be needed anyhow - a pity that > Tiago Ferreira did not keep his super-nice documentation up to date, and > no one else did. The other documentation pages like > https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/docs/menus/ and > https://imagejdocu.tudor.lu/gui/start are even older) Sorry this might be a bit of a clueless question but is there a mechanism in place to add to the documentation that Tiago produced? For example via Overleaf or github or something similar? I agree that the documentation is very good and it would be a shame that it goes too much out of date. Regards Gabriel -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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In reply to this post by Michael Schmid
Hi Michael,
I follow you completely for the idea of giving "Selection" its own menu. In fact I proposed this idea of moving the selection together with the overlay given that it took me some time to understand the differences between both and was thinking to a way to make things maybe more easy to understand especially for beginners who won't have all the historical background behind. As for the Edit>Selection>Enlarge... if you don't mind, I could forward you (maybe rather only through private mailing) some updated codes for you to validate them before submitting it to Wayne. Nevertheless I'm afraid you lost me with your point about the "pixel aspect ratio". You mean cases where the x calibration value is different from the y one? My best regards, Philippe ----- Mail original ----- De: "Michael Schmid" <[hidden email]> À: "imagej" <[hidden email]> Envoyé: Jeudi 1 Avril 2021 19:20:11 Objet: Re: Two stupid questions Hi Philippe, here are my 3 cents: Selections are used for editing an image (also for measurements, and more). Also, "Select All" is usually in the Edit menu. Overlays are for display, not for editing an image. So there is some justification for having these in different menus. Making "Selection" an own menu, not a submenu of Edit is on my own secret wish list for quite long. These are commands that I use rather often. Also Photoshop & Gimp have a selection menu. Considering that we have more icons in the toolbar than in the early days of ImageJ, there would space for an additional menu, and it would not break compatibility (macros and IJ.run don't care about in which menu a command is displayed). Just that the documentation would need updating. (Updating the ImageJ documentation would be needed anyhow - a pity that Tiago Ferreira did not keep his super-nice documentation up to date, and no one else did. The other documentation pages like https://imagej.nih.gov/ij/docs/menus/ and https://imagejdocu.tudor.lu/gui/start are even older) -- Edit>Selection>Enlarge... I guess that the rather basic behavior is simply for historic reasons, no one has found time or cared to improve it. It would be also nice to have ImageJ remember the state of the 'Pixel units' checkbox. But I guess that Wayne would be open for improved code with a DialogListener, to automatically transform the values (such as Edit>Selection>Specify does it). One further problem is that it does not care about the pixel aspect ratio, when 'Pixel units' is off. This could be implemented without too much effort for rectangular or oval selections, but not for other selections (there it is based on the Euclidian distance map of the mask, and the ImageJ EDM has no provisions for different x&y scale). Michael ________________________________________________________________ On 01.04.21 15:14, CARL Philippe (LBP) wrote: > Dear all, > Given that an overlay can be thought as an invisible ROI Manager, how come the selection features is within the Edit menu as the Overlay features is within the Image one? > Wouldn't it be more logical to have the Selection features as well within the Image menu and actually followed by the Overlay features? And in order to make things even clearer insert a separator before and after them? > Also within the Edit>Selection>Elarge... dialog there is a checkBox giving the possibility to define the transformation within Pixel_units in the case the picture has some defined dimensions. > But in the case I'm setting the Pixel_units checkBox to true, I would expect the parameter unit to be dynamically transformed from "microns" (in my case) into "pixels" as well as the value within the numericField to be transformed accordingly to the calibration parameters. But none of these updates are performed and the dialog remains "static". > My best regards, > Philippe > > Philippe CARL > Laboratoire de Bioimagerie et Pathologies > UMR 7021 CNRS - Université de Strasbourg > Faculté de Pharmacie > 74 route du Rhin > 67401 ILLKIRCH > Tel : +33(0)3 68 85 42 89 > > -- > ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html > -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html -- ImageJ mailing list: http://imagej.nih.gov/ij/list.html |
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